Pack Stock For The Dedicated Mule Deer Hunter

[wowzers]

From what my wife tells me the alfalfa is not the best for wethers because of the calcium. I have a couple that I’ve not done the best job training but we’re going to get after it this year. Picked up a couple replacement bottle babies the other day too. I’m kind of looking forward to hunting with them because I’ve always hunted alone and having company will be nice. Plus they can’t argue with my plan for the day.

Took them out on a hike today and it’s been a long winter apparently.

 

[Plainsman79]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

 

[Bachto]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

That is pretty correct for a good llama, sometimes even more.

If you want to go the goat route join NAPGA (North American Pack Goat Assoc.) also contact Nathan Putnam there. He is THE goat guy, he will actually help you. Run from Packgoats.com.

 

[Plainsman79]

That is pretty correct for a good llama, sometimes even more.

If you want to go the goat route join NAPGA (North American Pack Goat Assoc.) also contact Nathan Putnam there. He is THE goat guy, he will actually help you. Run from Packgoats.com.

Will do-Appreciate it!

 

[MountainMan83]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

You can google, Craigslist, or look at Rocky Mountain Llama Association for a few options. Check out a few llama ranches first before buying. I volunteered at a llama ranch for a bit which provided valuable experience and allowed me to see a variety of llamas before deciding on the ones I wanted. I also recommend you check out some books to learn more. I found llamas for $1000-10,000k, and ended up with four 1-2year olds for 10k total. Trained llamas will start around the 5K mark and go up from there.

 

[burrohiker]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

Burros/Donkeys will run a fraction of that price and require a similar level of home care, training, and facility space.

 

[bisblue]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

You have do some looking and calling for sure. They're not hard to train but they do vary in physical ability and willingness. You will pay more for a trained packer since your gambling on an untrained Llama. You can also pay for bloodlines.

It does seem there are more for sale than 4-5 years ago.

If buying a "trained" Llama ask to go on a hike with them

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

Agreed. They certainly CAN be in that $5-10K range apiece, but in no way do you need a llama that costs that. Call the first folks that come up on google searches, join facebook backcountry llama packing groups, and scour craigslist (occasionally some pop up here too). Getting a feel for what folks have and plugging in to the community are huge. By knowing multiple folks with animals, you should be able to track down some much better deals. If you are looking for turnkey packers though, definitely prepare to pay for them.

They're not hard to train, but training them is a time consuming progress. Remember that they really can't pack their full weight until they are about 4, and they mental maturity doesn't seem to fully develop until at least that time either. If you can get an older packer (retired packer), they can be really helpful for showing the younger, untrained llamas the ropes and really speed up that process.

Although not nearly as important as for horse owners (I don't think), remember that having llamas is very much a lifestyle choice. I truly believe the ideal stock for a dedicated deer hunter is no stock, particularly if you are not really into husbandry of pack animals. However, if you like working with the packers, and like deer hunting, they can be a hell of a tool and a great way to incorporate both together.

Lastly, get approval from a spousal figure before you start buying them. This has proven to be the most significant hurdle for many.

 

[wasatchcomm]

Im sure you can find some for less than $5k , I have seven and none were that expensive.
with that said they are not cheap.
on KSL, I see 4 for sale in Powell wyoming, all $3k all experienced.
if you have time and the willingness to invest the time in them, they are great, if not,, save your money and rent 2-3 per year. its for sure a commitment. im not sure quite as bad as horses or mules, but if you want good packers, no drama, you will need to get them going, I started with 3 then 5 now 7, no more for me, I have what I need, if we didn't hunt so far in I would have stuck with 3-4. but we can really get deep around here, and more is better. plus Im retiring my backpack this year I hope... it will be in a pannier, but I wont wear it if I can help it.
llamas are a lot of fun.

 

[Mike 338]

I've done goats and now have a couple mules. Goats can be pretty great assuming they're trained to know they have a job to do. If you just dust them off once a year. they can just lay down on you with a load of meat and refuse to get up. You think they'll just follow if you leave them but all that'll just gain you is another walk up or down the hill to figure out what to do with them. I will say that goats are super low maintenance. Not a lot to manage with them.

The reason I got mules is because a friend sort'a got me into horses a little. Had a couple dangerous experiences on horses so I thought maybe a mule would be the ticket. For one thing you can ride them so that's a big plus over goats. Mules/horses are kind'a high maintenance. Gotta feed and water them both morning and upon your return to camp. You gotta lead them and if your lead rope gets away from you, they're apt to take off. I had a mule charge past me on a rickety backcountry bridge and knock me into the creek. A goat you just pick up and carry across the creek. Being a mule/horse owner is a pretty big expense and time suck. Turning a green mule into a good mule requires some knowledge, patience and time. If you're the green one of this partnership, you can turn good animal in to a not so good animal, mostly by applying what you know about your dog to your horse/mule. All in all, I like having mules. Loads of satisfaction. I just got done trimming and shoeing my mules today. I can hardly move. I guess that's "satisfaction".

 

[wasatchcomm]

all these pack animals need to be in shape for sure, the better the shape the more miles the better experience.

 

[Eastman528]

From what my wife tells me the alfalfa is not the best for wethers because of the calcium. I have a couple that I’ve not done the best job training but we’re going to get after it this year. Picked up a couple replacement bottle babies the other day too. I’m kind of looking forward to hunting with them because I’ve always hunted alone and having company will be nice. Plus they can’t argue with my plan for the day.

Took them out on a hike today and it’s been a long winter apparently.

View attachment 694446

Definitely look into what information NAPGA has out there about Urinary Calculi. I don't think anyone knows for sure other than if I understand right yes, too much calcium/really high protein seems to play a role. I think opting to not feed Alfalfa is a good precaution but not sure anyone really knows. We have fed ours alfalfa just because we have it for the horses but not regularly or in large quantities, they definitely prefer it and haven't seen any issues with my 3.
Having the company is nice I'll admit similar to having a dog with you. Look like Lamancha's? should be good packers!

 

[Eastman528]

I’m really green on pack stock, I’ve always carried everything out on my back. But the thought came to mind last year along with that nagging idea of my body aging. Great subject and discussion-tons of great information.

For those of you with llamas or goats where did you buy them? A simple google search for llamas shows they start at about 5k is that correct?

I would second what Bachto said on goats; I consider Putnam a friend and he has been a great resource. Nothing against Packgoats.com I understand its a business and until Putnam started making his gear really that was the only source for pack equipment although its made by Bantam Tac. That said my 3 current packers came directly from reputable dairies not necessarily "packgoat" breeders. Two of which share genetics with some Warnke's goats I just didn't pay for them to be re-marketed as packgoats. There is something to be said for going with a reputable breeder though just like with any animal. My best goat was a $35 dairy cull my most expensive was $400 but I bought him as a breeding buck with really good genetics.

 

[Eastman528]

I've done goats and now have a couple mules. Goats can be pretty great assuming they're trained to know they have a job to do. If you just dust them off once a year. they can just lay down on you with a load of meat and refuse to get up. You think they'll just follow if you leave them but all that'll just gain you is another walk up or down the hill to figure out what to do with them. I will say that goats are super low maintenance. Not a lot to manage with them.

The reason I got mules is because a friend sort'a got me into horses a little. Had a couple dangerous experiences on horses so I thought maybe a mule would be the ticket. For one thing you can ride them so that's a big plus over goats. Mules/horses are kind'a high maintenance. Gotta feed and water them both morning and upon your return to camp. You gotta lead them and if your lead rope gets away from you, they're apt to take off. I had a mule charge past me on a rickety backcountry bridge and knock me into the creek. A goat you just pick up and carry across the creek. Being a mule/horse owner is a pretty big expense and time suck. Turning a green mule into a good mule requires some knowledge, patience and time. If you're the green one of this partnership, you can turn good animal in to a not so good animal, mostly by applying what you know about your dog to your horse/mule. All in all, I like having mules. Loads of satisfaction. I just got done trimming and shoeing my mules today. I can hardly move. I guess that's "satisfaction".

"A goat you just pick up and carry across the creek" Alright I want to see this . You bring up some good considerations though. To your point I think goats would be difficult to rent or use once a year, the whole basis of training goats is that they are essentially imprinted to you and your the herd leader so they want to follow you and not be left behind. Goats definitely don't like water but I haven't come across a creek they wont cross once they realize I am not waiting for them.

 

[Bachto]

"A goat you just pick up and carry across the creek" Alright I want to see this . You bring up some good considerations though. To your point I think goats would be difficult to rent or use once a year, the whole basis of training goats is that they are essentially imprinted to you and your the herd leader so they want to follow you and not be left behind. Goats definitely don't like water but I haven't come across a creek they wont cross once they realize I am not waiting for them.

The best way I have found to get goats to cross a creek is to take your best and easiest going goat. "Drag" him across. The other goats will realize they need to cross and will quickly follow. This is similar to your method but I found it takes them less time to decide they will cross if they see another do it.

 

[Eastman528]

Catching up on this thread, I am really happy to see all the on-going discussion, allot of good perspective from experience with different animals. I currently still have my goats and intend to use them more this summer and plan a hunting trip where they will be used this fall. I like to follow through with things and I really need to spend some more time with them packing to gain a better perspective sense this is really the first season they are fully mature and ready to pack full weight. That said I will be dedicating more time to the horses this summer and will be using them on at least one hunting trip. I am excited to share that experience from the perspective of someone with some experience but who is still very much learning I might start a separate thread dedicated to my horse journey and I'll try to share some photo's.

 

[wowzers]

Definitely look into what information NAPGA has out there about Urinary Calculi. I don't think anyone knows for sure other than if I understand right yes, too much calcium/really high protein seems to play a role. I think opting to not feed Alfalfa is a good precaution but not sure anyone really knows. We have fed ours alfalfa just because we have it for the horses but not regularly or in large quantities, they definitely prefer it and haven't seen any issues with my 3.
Having the company is nice I'll admit similar to having a dog with you. Look like Lamancha's? should be good packers!

Yeah they are lamanchas. The wife breeds them for her dairy stuff.

 

[Eastman528]

Well this all came full circle and I am looking to sell my packgoats. I made a separate thread with the advertisement in this forum but thought I would mention here.
One of many reasons is I recently acquired an 8 yo quarter horse mare that I know the history on and was too good of an opportunity to pass up. I plan to make a separate thread on that journey but long story short going all in on horses and a mule will likely follow .