Pack Stock For The Dedicated Mule Deer Hunter

[CM]

Not wanting to take this into the weeds but... A number of years ago I came out of nasty creek crossing on my horse only to come nose to nose with a llama. An exciting experience. After that I heard of people buying a llama to put in with their horses to precondition them to the encounters. For the most part the 80s llamas have gone away in my country and we haven't seen any goats yet. Has anyone on horses encountered goats? If so what was the reaction?

I have a string of goats, I've ran into horses a few times, I try my hardest to be considerate and give horses as wide a berth as possible given the terrain and usually it's okay. We ran 3 guys with 5 mules once. The guys at the beginning and the end were riding a mule and leading another one. The wife of one of the guys was riding in the middle. I saw them coming and got the goats 50-60 yards off the trail to let them pass. the first two passed fine, the 3rd one ridden by the wife freaked out at the goats but the lady got it calmed down before it turned into very much of a rodeo. She had to dismount and lead that mule past us.

Like has been mentioned goats are a great entry level pack animal and require much less land and investment than horses/mules. All the positives/negatives have been laid out pretty well in this trhead. One other thing I'd like to mention that hasn't been brought up is goats are pretty picky with feed. If you don't have a lot of acreage for them to browse you have to make sure they have the right calcium to phosphorous ratio or they will get urinary calculi (similar to kidney stones) and die. A lot of people just think you can feed them whatever and they'll be fine and they are a bit more picky than that.

One day I'd like to own horses or mules but the goats have been pretty good. It's nice to not have to water them every day when hunting. They obviously can't carry nearly as much as a larger animal and you can't ride them but they take the edge off a long backpack hunt.

 

[nickstone]

I have llamas and horses. I got into llamas when I was trying to decide between llamas and goats for pack stock. I rented llamas once and was sold. Really enjoy them. I think if I had two llamas I could do a lot of work as a dedicated mule deer hunter. With a rack they can fit in a truck, no trailer. I opted out of horses/mules for the safety reasons previously mentioned.
I got horses to field trial dogs, and have since asked myself if I should pick one or the other. I keep going back to the personal safety component. Also, llamas are pretty dang easy to keep at the house and easy keepers on or off the trail. Obviously you have to change the way you hunt slightly, and I am still learning that, but overall really happy with the llamas. When I am hunting I often just lead the llamas with me, even if I have a base camp. Has not seamed to have an impact on game, and then they are right there with you if you get an animal down.

My llamas spot way more animals than I do and the game usually ignore me and don’t spook from the llamas. This year in NV I had 2 small bucks come into camp about 20 yards away from where the llamas were staked out. I wasn’t too far away blowing up a giant orange air mattress and the deer ignored me.

I am always concerned that the llamas are going to make an alarm call and spook game, but it hasn’t happened yet.

 

[squirrel]

Interesting that you are willing to play the field. Many indeed most follow one and only one doctrine and come to believe that it is the "one true faith". Horse lovers (not the same as horse users) are no doubt the worst at this.
My theory of pack stock is that ANY ANIMAL THAT CARRIES WHAT OTHERWISE WOULD BE ON MY BACK...is a good pack animal. This list would include dogs to camels and yaks.

With that being said my eggs are firmly planted in the llama basket. The reasons include, but are not limited to:
1. My wife allows them
2. they take little acreage at home
3. They take little maintenance in the back country
4. They are more of a game attractant than repellant
5. they have a very calm demeanour, though your mileage may vary!
6. they can handle rough country and since they are led not ridden they do it safely
7. super easy to fence (at home) and tether (in the wild)
8. no trailer required for up to 4 in a racked p/u for rough trailheads or heavy snow
9. weight hauled / lb. of body weight is superb
10. my wife allows them

Of course they have negatives, all stock does, you simply must weigh and evaluate them for your individual style. You wouldn't know it currently but llamas are inexpensive to get into, Ive never seen such a sellers market as we have right now, this too shall pass. Tack is simple and inexpensive to make if you have the skills required.

Just as mentioned above use, miles, conditioning, repetition, all are required way before the main event or heartbreak will result, no matter which animals you chose to own, or you should stick with an ATV where you shove the key in and turn.

For an individual hunter who knows how to pack a string of 4-6 llamas is probably ideal, your stipulation of "deer" would favour the lower number as their poundage of carcass weight is less. Somehow all my hobbies get a bit unruly and llamas are no exception, I cant imagine going on an overnighter for trout @ tree line with less than 500# of gear and 8-10 llamas, but years ago some how I did just that and survived. I try not to count (but SHE does) but I think im sitting at 31-32 right now, some things are just better off not accurately quantified...

I cant imagine in todays west that anyone would not want to take trips with any or all of their prospective pack stock to try before they buy so as to get a perfect fit for their needs, as well as to try the specific animals they wish to buy so as to verify that the buyers idea of "well broke" matches with the sellers same descriptive terms. This is doubly true at todays exorbitantly high pricing.

Useful pack trail life is from 4-20 years but those last 5 should likely be with light loads only.

Vet bills are minimal and politically they are simple animals with not many restrictions, although the horse and mule folks are desperately trying to enact some. After you first meet a non-conditioned horse on the trail you will know why.

 

[burrohiker]

Donks are cool. But like said 100x already- the best animal is the one you work with frequently. Mules, Donks, Yaks, whatever. They all have their advantages and disadvantages in any given situation.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

Donks are cool. But like said 100x already- the best animal is the one you work with frequently. Mules, Donks, Yaks, whatever. They all have their advantages and disadvantages in any given situation.

Those are some wooly critters! As long as they behave themselves and carry stuff, all are welcome with me!

 

[Eastman528]

Donks are cool. But like said 100x already- the best animal is the one you work with frequently. Mules, Donks, Yaks, whatever. They all have their advantages and disadvantages in any given situation.

Love that you mentioned Yaks, I actually have a friend who owns Yaks and some years ago he did train them to pack and did some wilderness elk and mule deer hunting with them. He is the type I think half did it just to do something different. I bet he has some photo's somewhere I'll see if I can get him to dig some up and share just for the novelty of it! He is a great guy but is cheap, despite my trying to convince him otherwise he wont spend more than a few hundred bucks on a horse/mule then doesn't spend much time with them. Consequently he ends up doing more walking than riding haha

 

[Eastman528]

Interesting that you are willing to play the field. Many indeed most follow one and only one doctrine and come to believe that it is the "one true faith". Horse lovers (not the same as horse users) are no doubt the worst at this.
My theory of pack stock is that ANY ANIMAL THAT CARRIES WHAT OTHERWISE WOULD BE ON MY BACK...is a good pack animal. This list would include dogs to camels and yaks.

With that being said my eggs are firmly planted in the llama basket. The reasons include, but are not limited to:
1. My wife allows them
2. they take little acreage at home
3. They take little maintenance in the back country
4. They are more of a game attractant than repellant
5. they have a very calm demeanour, though your mileage may vary!
6. they can handle rough country and since they are led not ridden they do it safely
7. super easy to fence (at home) and tether (in the wild)
8. no trailer required for up to 4 in a racked p/u for rough trailheads or heavy snow
9. weight hauled / lb. of body weight is superb
10. my wife allows them

Of course they have negatives, all stock does, you simply must weigh and evaluate them for your individual style. You wouldn't know it currently but llamas are inexpensive to get into, Ive never seen such a sellers market as we have right now, this too shall pass. Tack is simple and inexpensive to make if you have the skills required.

Just as mentioned above use, miles, conditioning, repetition, all are required way before the main event or heartbreak will result, no matter which animals you chose to own, or you should stick with an ATV where you shove the key in and turn.

For an individual hunter who knows how to pack a string of 4-6 llamas is probably ideal, your stipulation of "deer" would favour the lower number as their poundage of carcass weight is less. Somehow all my hobbies get a bit unruly and llamas are no exception, I cant imagine going on an overnighter for trout @ tree line with less than 500# of gear and 8-10 llamas, but years ago some how I did just that and survived. I try not to count (but SHE does) but I think im sitting at 31-32 right now, some things are just better off not accurately quantified...

I cant imagine in todays west that anyone would not want to take trips with any or all of their prospective pack stock to try before they buy so as to get a perfect fit for their needs, as well as to try the specific animals they wish to buy so as to verify that the buyers idea of "well broke" matches with the sellers same descriptive terms. This is doubly true at todays exorbitantly high pricing.

Useful pack trail life is from 4-20 years but those last 5 should likely be with light loads only.

Vet bills are minimal and politically they are simple animals with not many restrictions, although the horse and mule folks are desperately trying to enact some. After you first meet a non-conditioned horse on the trail you will know why.

Well I am willing to be open minded at least and I considered pretty much all options when deciding to look for an animal besides horses. Llamas were on that list as I had known guys who had used them and liked them.
Reason # 1 & 10 are solid, smart man

The market across the board is out of control right now, it does seem the horse market has somewhat come down but it has been out of control post covid. That's partly what has kept me from getting another horse/mule I have just been priced out for what I am looking for unless I get a colt and start it myself (with help).
The term "Horse salesman" didn't come from nowhere, some of the greatest people I have ever met are in the "horse industry" also some of the most dishonest. Its obviously not limited to that I see it with goats and everything else but horse salesman are the worst due to the nature of it. You want an eye opening experience go to a big horse/mule sale. If you are fortunate like my wife and I were; to have some people in your corner to keep you from making bad decisions you will learn allot but probably more about people than horses. It was worth it for the entertainment factor and experience but I don't know that I will ever go that route again when I am in the market. We went to the sale with 10 horses selected out of about 100 or so if I remember correctly to check out, the first night there we had it down to about half of that due to obvious lameness issues even someone as inexperienced as I could pick out. We rode a handful and come bidding had a couple we were considering but by about the second bid were priced out based on what we felt they were worth. We left empty handed with a new appreciation for the ones we had at home haha.

I get both sides of it, I am seriously considering selling my goats and when I attempt to put a value on them its pretty hard even with a simple animal like that to put value on all the time invested, raising from a bottle to training hikes, getting them to load in the back of a pickup the list goes on. You never get that back out but at the same time its worth something for someone being able to acquire an animal where allot of the hard work has already been done and they are ready to go.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

Well I have three goats and they have been pretty good to me. I do get annoyed with how clingy they are, but because of that they naturally follow. And while this may be frowned upon I do leave them in camp most of the time. They have been fine in camp.

 

[Eastman528]

Well I have three goats and they have been pretty good to me. I do get annoyed with how clingy they are, but because of that they naturally follow. And while this may be frowned upon I do leave them in camp most of the time. They have been fine in camp.

Curious; do you do anything in particular to keep them safe at camp beyond just securing them via highline? For example I have heard of people leaving a radio on which I thought was creative. I have also considered a light weight hot fence similar to ones commonly used for bear protection in Grizzly country. I don't think this would prevent a really determined predator but this would certainly help and be useful otherwise.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

Curious; do you do anything in particular to keep them safe at camp beyond just securing them via highline? For example I have heard of people leaving a radio on which I thought was creative. I have also considered a light weight hot fence similar to ones commonly used for bear protection in Grizzly country. I don't think this would prevent a really determined predator but this would certainly help and be useful otherwise.

I have not done anything besides put them on the high line. I do like the radio idea, I may give it a try. I have been in areas with thick black bear densities and thick Mountain light densities. I have not had them in grizzly country.

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t hunt mule deer on horseback, but friends that do have had to make some concessions at times. A lot of good western timberline country is easy to ride to in dry conditions, less so in rain and snow. Elk hunters seem to have it much easier, or at least their problems are different - getting through thickly overgrown timber.

The last time I hunted alongside a friend on horseback, he had to park horses during fresh heavy snow and after heavy rains in steep muddy terrain. The outfitter that hunts my normal area also has to park and hunt many spots on foot.

If your plan is to hunt the same country as every other guy on horseback, working along horse trails to peek into every bowl, checking out every ridge, you’re getting into a different type of hunting, not that there’s anything wrong with that.

Many weekend horse riders in the off season usually stay home when it’s raining and snowing - discovering your horse doesn’t do well on trails crossing shale slides lubricated with snow, or the up and down over large wet rocks would be a bummer.

Like others have said, train wrecks are usually caused by inexperience, horse, man, or both. One year I had an elk down in a very steep drainage and a guy at the trailhead offered to let me borrow his mule. I was wearing crampons to make it up the steep sections - a mule is normally smart enough to not listen to a bad idea and would have said no way - but an easy path up and ridiculous path down could have been a wreck. The owner of the mule didn’t know what he didn’t know.

I’ve been around some idiot horses that would try whatever you asked and that would have ended badly for either animal on both ends of the halter rope. Most dead horses I come across in the back country don’t handle short sections of steep slick side hill trails - they are probably ridden on normal horse trails 11 months of the year and don’t get practice, or they are just not smart enough to pay attention.

More than one childhood friend who grew up on horseback won’t hunt with them in rough terrain.

 

[Pony Soldier]

Some of the worst things I have to look out for when I am hunting the sage on horseback are the barbwire fences left over from the homesteader days. Most times it is almost buried but often in the thick sage or mtn mahogany it will have a strand or two a few inches off the ground. I have been lucky so far but I spend a lot of time looking for it. Even to the point of leading my horse through likely spots.

 

[wasatchcomm]

Ive never owned horses goats llamas mules or any pack animals until 1.5 years ago.

Everything Nick and Squirrel and Bull n Heat. mentioned iI agree with.

I live in wyoming and spend a fair amount of time in the Winds, Wy range and GV.

I had been on a couple hunts with horses before, but these were the horses that were saddled 3 times a year, once in spring, once the week before elk hunt, then the hunt. no thanks. ive been rolled on by a horse on one of those trips. again, no thanks. im sure good horses that are in shape would be a different story.
if I had a mentor or knew anything about them I may have tried mules or horses. my wife is not interested in them though, she likes to walk , we love to hike and walk , we do everyday.

Had one hunt 2 years ago with goats, buddy had pack goats, it was my first trip owning llamas and they came too, they didn't really care for the goats, but weren't scared of them , again no thanks you can have the goats, needy, whiny, poop everywhere, want to get in my tent, want to cuddle , no thank you. but the price is right on them, but like OP stated, its revolving door with them, short use time. always raising and getting rid of especially if you want a big enough string to handle any hunt. we regularly are 10+ miles in for elk and deer


With that said, I was fortunate to meet a nice lady that has pack llamas near me, she allowed me to take them on trips to get them exercise, and get them in shape 2 summers ago, I spent quite a bit of time walking camping packing with them for the spring and was blown away how easy they are.
I purchased 3 that fall, then 2 more last spring, then I just purchased 2 more this winter. I have 7 now.
I will take my llamas anywhere I can go or want to go. they amaze me every time I take them out.
Someone mentioned no personalities, Nick and Squirrel will disagree as will I, they have some great personalities. they amuse me every time I take them out, they are level headed, and will do just about anything you ask of them. my llamas were in tremendous shape last fall.
in fact my newest llama last year, was a 5 year old stud. he packed my entire mule deer out head, meat (bone in) by himself. he had never been next to a bag of meat or blood that I know of, I walked over laid the panniers next to him, let him smell them while I was getting the other boys ready, head and rack laying next to him. he smelled it, then just went back to browsing. my llamas are so calm and easy to use, its ridiculous.
others have mentioned the same.

To the OP mule deer hunting, llamas are quiet, everything they do is quiet. eat sleep walk even when they spook they are pretty quiet, unless one alarm barks. which also is pretty quiet compared to mule horse or even a goat. my boys are smart, they understand their roles , work as a team, and I feel like I can take them anywhere anytime and be successful. I owe Squirrel a nod for helping me with a stubborn llama I had, no more problems, he's a good boy and a heck of a lead llama now.

This years hunt I was camped directly below a burn area I harvested my buck, watched that buck for 4 days before I got him, he could see my camp, my llamas, my orange tent all of it, every night he would feed down to water, every morning he would feed up to bed, he was within 800yds of my camp for 4 days. its a big burn, hard to shoot in, took me several days before I figured out his pattern and I had one shooting lane about 15' wide he would pass through every day once the sun got high enough, I made a place to be able to shoot up to him at a steep angle, and waited, got him at noon on a friday 530yds
my llamas were 50 -75 yds behind me the whole time...

With that being said, I dont know if any other pack animal would have been tolerated like myself and llamas were those 4 days. I was quiet, as were my llamas.

Ive used my llamas on archery and rifle elk too, leave them at camp some days, take them with other days, mainly so they dont get bored, get them some exercise and I think they enjoy it.
My neighbor shot his first elk in 20 years, my llamas were 100 yds away in the open in a meadow the elk could see them, but came out anyway and he got his first elk in a long time.

they have never hurt my chances hunting with them. they carried 5 elk and one deer out last year
not all mine. I took them for a walk the other day, it was like they hadn't missed a beat, yes their not in the same shape they were in October,, but they know what to do and when to do it...
as long as I can walk the mountains, I will , and I will lead my llamas everywhere I go. they love it, they're patient, they work hard, and they have absolutely made my hunts and summers more fun.

IMO llamas are the best pack animal for mule deer. and frankly everything else unless a person cannot walk and needs to ride, that's the only draw back to them. Easy on feed, easy on water, easy on the trails, easy on the handler, easy on everything really.

I know that will make the horse and mule and goat guys a little upset,, but for ease of use, I dont think any other animal compares to a pack llama.

 

[Eastman528]

Ive never owned horses goats llamas mules or any pack animals until 1.5 years ago.

Everything Nick and Squirrel and Bull n Heat. mentioned iI agree with.

I live in wyoming and spend a fair amount of time in the Winds, Wy range and GV.

I had been on a couple hunts with horses before, but these were the horses that were saddled 3 times a year, once in spring, once the week before elk hunt, then the hunt. no thanks. ive been rolled on by a horse on one of those trips. again, no thanks. im sure good horses that are in shape would be a different story.
if I had a mentor or knew anything about them I may have tried mules or horses. my wife is not interested in them though, she likes to walk , we love to hike and walk , we do everyday.

Had one hunt 2 years ago with goats, buddy had pack goats, it was my first trip owning llamas and they came too, they didn't really care for the goats, but weren't scared of them , again no thanks you can have the goats, needy, whiny, poop everywhere, want to get in my tent, want to cuddle , no thank you. but the price is right on them, but like OP stated, its revolving door with them, short use time. always raising and getting rid of especially if you want a big enough string to handle any hunt. we regularly are 10+ miles in for elk and deer


With that said, I was fortunate to meet a nice lady that has pack llamas near me, she allowed me to take them on trips to get them exercise, and get them in shape 2 summers ago, I spent quite a bit of time walking camping packing with them for the spring and was blown away how easy they are.
I purchased 3 that fall, then 2 more last spring, then I just purchased 2 more this winter. I have 7 now.
I will take my llamas anywhere I can go or want to go. they amaze me every time I take them out.
Someone mentioned no personalities, Nick and Squirrel will disagree as will I, they have some great personalities. they amuse me every time I take them out, they are level headed, and will do just about anything you ask of them. my llamas were in tremendous shape last fall.
in fact my newest llama last year, was a 5 year old stud. he packed my entire mule deer out head, meat (bone in) by himself. he had never been next to a bag of meat or blood that I know of, I walked over laid the panniers next to him, let him smell them while I was getting the other boys ready, head and rack laying next to him. he smelled it, then just went back to browsing. my llamas are so calm and easy to use, its ridiculous.
others have mentioned the same.

To the OP mule deer hunting, llamas are quiet, everything they do is quiet. eat sleep walk even when they spook they are pretty quiet, unless one alarm barks. which also is pretty quiet compared to mule horse or even a goat. my boys are smart, they understand their roles , work as a team, and I feel like I can take them anywhere anytime and be successful. I owe Squirrel a nod for helping me with a stubborn llama I had, no more problems, he's a good boy and a heck of a lead llama now.

This years hunt I was camped directly below a burn area I harvested my buck, watched that buck for 4 days before I got him, he could see my camp, my llamas, my orange tent all of it, every night he would feed down to water, every morning he would feed up to bed, he was within 800yds of my camp for 4 days. its a big burn, hard to shoot in, took me several days before I figured out his pattern and I had one shooting lane about 15' wide he would pass through every day once the sun got high enough, I made a place to be able to shoot up to him at a steep angle, and waited, got him at noon on a friday 530yds
my llamas were 50 -75 yds behind me the whole time...

With that being said, I dont know if any other pack animal would have been tolerated like myself and llamas were those 4 days. I was quiet, as were my llamas.

Ive used my llamas on archery and rifle elk too, leave them at camp some days, take them with other days, mainly so they dont get bored, get them some exercise and I think they enjoy it.
My neighbor shot his first elk in 20 years, my llamas were 100 yds away in the open in a meadow the elk could see them, but came out anyway and he got his first elk in a long time.

they have never hurt my chances hunting with them. they carried 5 elk and one deer out last year
not all mine. I took them for a walk the other day, it was like they hadn't missed a beat, yes their not in the same shape they were in October,, but they know what to do and when to do it...
as long as I can walk the mountains, I will , and I will lead my llamas everywhere I go. they love it, they're patient, they work hard, and they have absolutely made my hunts and summers more fun.

IMO llamas are the best pack animal for mule deer. and frankly everything else unless a person cannot walk and needs to ride, that's the only draw back to them. Easy on feed, easy on water, easy on the trails, easy on the handler, easy on everything really.

I know that will make the horse and mule and goat guys a little upset,, but for ease of use, I dont think any other animal compares to a pack llama.

Appreciate your insight, I was recently talking with a buddy and fellow mule deer nut and we sort of came to the conclusion that clean slate for someone without prior experience with stock llamas would be the go to all around for most people in our opinions.

Good point about them being quite too, I am fortunate that my goats are unusually quite for goats now that I don't have a Boer in the herd but they do make allot of noise if I leave their sight and I will admit if they get to fighting at all that can cause quite a bit of racket.

I will concede that llamas are also probably the "lowest maintenance" goats due to the nature of how they are trained do want to be in your business but this is easily mitigated by tying them off or putting them on a highline. The only time it has been an issue for me is when stopping somewhere on the trail temporarily and they aren't tied off, they learn to respect your space though if you train them in my opinion allot of people just allow too much similar to dogs.

If llamas weren't so expensive to rent and I didn't already have 2 other options in the pasture I would probably try them out just to know what its about and maybe at some point I will anyways.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

If I was only looking for stock to use during hunting season I’d look seriously into llamas.

I happen to love the daily interaction, training and relationship building with horses and mules. So it’s mules for me.

As many have stated before, I also firmly believe that if considering mules or horses, it’s so important that one embraces the lifestyle they entail all year round. Otherwise, they’re too expensive, dangerous and too much work in my mind for just the purpose of hunting.

If one has the space, passion and patience, the relationship with a horse or mule is pretty darn awesome.

 

[wasatchcomm]

pretty much every horse mule owner ive ever spoke with said the same thing, its a lifestyle. im very lucky that the person I get my llamas from, allows me to keep them at her place, she is feeding and watering them every day, and interacting with them, they dont need to be worked with so much over winter, but I do get them out for a couple hikes, but I regularly see them as well. here in a few weeks we will start hiking weekly, to get them in shape, they dont take any work saddling them or getting in the string groove, they're always ready.
also I have a person with 40+years llama experience to show me how to do things, for care or training, or packing. I had 0 livestock experience, and I wanted to be able to hunt deep, goats were considered often, but the experience I had with them , and the llamas I eventually purchased made the decision easy for me. llamas are expensive compared to goats, was the only real downfall, and not quite as expensive as horses/mules.

I think that ever person knows what theses animals are all about.

everyone knows how much time they have to spare.

if you dont know, rent them, see what fits your style.

plenty of good mule deer hunters hunt from horses and use goats or llamas.

each has limitations, and each also provides the ability to hunt extended periods

For me llamas were perfect. they do everything I want and more. and they do it quite easily. but they still take up time in the mountains. saddling panniers, water, feed , stake out, so on and so forth...

 

[bisblue]

One thing I like about my llamas is they don't really overeat. I can cut them loose on a friend's pasture and pick them up a couple weeks later for a trip.

 

[WyoHuntr]

I'm a bit late to the party, but mule deer hunting is something I can definitely chime in on. (Especially solo hunting). The best pack stock is the stock that can follow you into the rough & steep country. Horses and mules just ain't it! Every time I take the nags, it is more of a minus than a plus. There are too many spots they can't go and take too much time to maintain. I generally choose my own legs over a horse for deer.

I can't speak specifically to goats or llamas, as I've never used them. (I tried to buy some trained llamas when they exploded in popularity and pickings were slim-to-none). They would be a better consideration for a dedicated mule deer hunter. Cloven hooves are the way to go in steep country!

I've gone the mule route and went right back to horses. Mules are all of the good... but also all of the bad. (No one mentions this until you purchase one.... then they laugh about those "peculiarities" that seemed to slip their mind pre-purchase). You don't always want a dumb equine to have an equal vote. For all the talk of how smart they are, they are still a small brained animal 5x larger than you are.... and are complete a**holes (sometimes immovable) when they disagree with you! I was wishing for a "dumb" horse on many occasions! You can find horses with most of the mule traits. My newer horse is sure footed, doesn't drink/eat as much, smart as hell, (and unfortunately is also a pain in the a**). But at least I can coax him through most situations... and he doesn't hold a grudge! Muleskinners embrace the peculiarities and challenges of mules. Non-mule owners just tell you all the good traits... and are usually not great for advice after you get one.

 

[squirrel]

One thing I like about my llamas is they don't really overeat. I can cut them loose on a friend's pasture and pick them up a couple weeks later for a trip.

Be careful on high quality hay. I had two die in winter on 4th cutting alfalfa that was unbelievable quality. The old ones handled it fine I would be suspicious the young ones were like teenagers at a Golden Corral and didn't know enough to stop chewing and go for a walk. Both puffed up like they ate a basketball. healthy to dead in 10 minutes.

My buddy makes me laugh with his succinct truthtelling, one of which is... Some guys should just stick to ATV's. all pack stock has a down side, and if you add a non- stock kinda guy into the mix its not gonna end well for either party.

 

[bisblue]

Be careful on high quality hay. I had two die in winter on 4th cutting alfalfa that was unbelievable quality. The old ones handled it fine I would be suspicious the young ones were like teenagers at a Golden Corral and didn't know enough to stop chewing and go for a walk. Both puffed up like they ate a basketball. healthy to dead in 10 minutes.

My buddy makes me laugh with his succinct truthtelling, one of which is... Some guys should just stick to ATV's. all pack stock has a down side, and if you add a non- stock kinda guy into the mix its not gonna end well for either party.

Yeah they just get grass hay and friends grass pastures