Pack Goats For Backcountry Hunting, By Desarae Stark

[Justin Crossley]

Have you thought about pack goats but don't know where to start or if they would work for your adventures? Desarae and her husband have been using them the last few years with great results. In this article Desarae explains how they utilize them for backcountry hunts and family trips.

Pack Goats For Backcountry Hunting

 

[MuleyFever]

Goats are something I think I will have one day. Hunting alone and getting older I will need some help to keep hunting the backcountry the way I like to. Or maybe llamas.

Do you never leave the goats? How would you archery hunt with them?

 

[WesternBounty]

Goats are something I think I will have one day. Hunting alone and getting older I will need some help to keep hunting the backcountry the way I like to. Or maybe llamas.

Do you never leave the goats? How would you archery hunt with them?

Yes that is correct you NEVER leave a goat unattended. Goats want to be near humans if left tied somewhere not only will they try and escape to find you and then you can have the issue of a lost goat which is not good at all, but they are also subject to predators such as mountain lions or bears. Goats will hunt right there with you, and often times you will find its not an issue. In fact on my deer hunt (pictured above) the goats were in the view of the deer before I was able to place a shot on the deer. Wildlife isn't threatened by the sight of goats.

 

[WesternBounty]

Goats are something I think I will have one day. Hunting alone and getting older I will need some help to keep hunting the backcountry the way I like to. Or maybe llamas.

Do you never leave the goats? How would you archery hunt with them?

Also like mentioned in the article I highly suggest joining North American Packgoat Association Join Here for $20 they have a Pack Goat 101 PDF guide you get access to after joining that answers so many questions when it comes to pack goats! Stuff I wish we have access to three years ago when starting out. They also have a Facebook group if you search the organization name, and its full of members who have been packing goats for years and have a wealth of knowledge.

 

[MattB]

Love goats, next best thing to dogs.

Just don't take them into sheep country.

 

[WesternBounty]

Love goats, next best thing to dogs.

Just don't take them into sheep country.

We haven't had them in sheep country yet but we would consider taking them based on the circumstances. The latest available science we have reviewed has not shown that goats are a threat to bighorn sheep; especially with respect to Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae (M.ovi) and it’s link to pneumonia outbreaks; the main health concern when it comes to wild sheep. Domestic sheep and goats have been lumped together when it comes to this issue, but research has shown that they are different.

Studies commingling domestic sheep and bighorn sheep have had devastating results with very high fatality (~95%). It makes sense to do what we can to keep domestic sheep and bighorn sheep from having contact. Studies with goats have had very different results. Even when Movi positive goats were commingled with bighorn sheep, the bighorn sheep did not get pneumonia or die (Besser-WSU, 2012 & 2016). When you look at all of the commingling studies done, domestic goat studies have had comparable death rates to the horse and cattle studies (Goats-12.5%, Horse-17%, Cattle-11%). (Foreyt-1982, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2009; Onderka-1988; Besser-2012, 2016).

Furthermore, with recent discoveries of M.ovi carried non-sheep/goat species also needs to be considered. M.ovi has been found in caribou and moose as discovered by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game in a June 15, 2018 press release. Another June 15, 2018 press release but by the Wild Sheep Foundation sited discovery of M.ovi in deer, bison, moose and caribou. There is no evidence that goats are any more of a threat to bighorn sheep than any of these other ungulates.

We also feel that this becomes a non-issue if we test for M.ovi prior to entering Bighorn Sheep country; our goats can't pass on something they don't have. Based on this, pack goats are a negligible risk to bighorn sheep populations when you consider the minimal risk indicated by the latest available science coupled with the nature of pack goats, heath inspections and some simple backcountry handling practices. I wouldn’t have pack goats if that wasn’t the case.

 

[Battle]

Goats are something I think I will have one day. Hunting alone and getting older I will need some help to keep hunting the backcountry the way I like to. Or maybe llamas.

Do you never leave the goats? How would you archery hunt with them?

Desarae’s husband here. For solo archery, Llamas might be a better option. This was my first year archery elk hunting with the goats and had good luck calling in elk for partners with the goats loose around me. Marc Warnke has some good videos of him archery hunting elk with goats. Archery mule deer with the goats is not something I’ve been able to do yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wiscgunner]

Thanks for the great article. What is the shelter you have pictured?

 

[Tenormsster011]

Fantastic article and great pictures. It really gets me thinking about goats.

 

[WesternBounty]

Thanks for the great article. What is the shelter you have pictured?

My husband (Battle- Rokslide Username) actually made this tent for our family. He does have a thread on it somewhere here recently where he has additional photos and discusses it.

 

[WesternBounty]

Fantastic article and great pictures. It really gets me thinking about goats.

If you are considering I really recommend picking that book up it was what made us go from thinking about it to getting most of our questions answered and realizing it was very fitting for what our family was looking for. Also the North American Packgoat Association aka NAPgA has a great Pack Goat 101 PDF guide that you can print off after paying a 20$ membership and it literally covers everything you would ever need to know about pack goats- breeds, feeding, nutrition, shelter, care, maintenance, fencing all that stuff that alone is well worth the 20$. Plus they also have a Facebook group with a lot of people who have been packing goats for years that is really helpful too

 

[MattB]

We haven't had them in sheep country yet but we would consider taking them based on the circumstances. The latest available science we have reviewed has not shown that goats are a threat to bighorn sheep; especially with respect to Mycoplasma ovipneumoniae (M.ovi) and it’s link to pneumonia outbreaks; the main health concern when it comes to wild sheep. Domestic sheep and goats have been lumped together when it comes to this issue, but research has shown that they are different.

Studies commingling domestic sheep and bighorn sheep have had devastating results with very high fatality (~95%). It makes sense to do what we can to keep domestic sheep and bighorn sheep from having contact. Studies with goats have had very different results. Even when Movi positive goats were commingled with bighorn sheep, the bighorn sheep did not get pneumonia or die (Besser-WSU, 2012 & 2016). When you look at all of the commingling studies done, domestic goat studies have had comparable death rates to the horse and cattle studies (Goats-12.5%, Horse-17%, Cattle-11%). (Foreyt-1982, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2009; Onderka-1988; Besser-2012, 2016).

Furthermore, with recent discoveries of M.ovi carried non-sheep/goat species also needs to be considered. M.ovi has been found in caribou and moose as discovered by the Alaska Department of Fish and Game in a June 15, 2018 press release. Another June 15, 2018 press release but by the Wild Sheep Foundation sited discovery of M.ovi in deer, bison, moose and caribou. There is no evidence that goats are any more of a threat to bighorn sheep than any of these other ungulates.

We also feel that this becomes a non-issue if we test for M.ovi prior to entering Bighorn Sheep country; our goats can't pass on something they don't have. Based on this, pack goats are a negligible risk to bighorn sheep populations when you consider the minimal risk indicated by the latest available science coupled with the nature of pack goats, heath inspections and some simple backcountry handling practices. I wouldn’t have pack goats if that wasn’t the case.

There is literature that reflects transmission of pneumonia and other diseases between domestic goats and bighorn sheep. While there have been studies with minimal samples that did not reflect a connection for specific pathogens, that shouldn't be used to somehow dismiss the studies that did identify a connection. As someone who is passionate about the conservation if our wild sheep, I personally think it would be irresponsible to take the risk based on cherry picking from a very small set of conflicting studies.

 

[WesternBounty]

There is literature that reflects transmission of pneumonia and other diseases between domestic goats and bighorn sheep. While there have been studies with minimal samples that did not reflect a connection for specific pathogens, that shouldn't be used to somehow dismiss the studies that did identify a connection. As someone who is passionate about the conservation if our wild sheep, I personally think it would be irresponsible to take the risk based on cherry picking from a very small set of conflicting studies.

In no way do we want to dismiss passion for conservation of wild sheep, I myself have been a supporting member of WSF for 7 years. There is one study where a goat gave a bighorn sheep a "goat" strain of M.ovi and that was after the leading scientist Dr. Tom Besser injected the goat with M.ovi because nothing was happening prior to that injection when the bighorn sheep and goat was pinned together. The bighorn sheep also did not die due to the pathogen instead of seeing out the results they euthanized the bighorn sheep for "evaluation" in which it was concluded the bighorn sheep had M.ovi. In that same research which is published you can now see that Dr. Tom Besser had to disclose he was paid $100,000 to perform that research by the WSF, so there could be "cherry picking" no matter where your looking. With all do respect to both bighorn sheep and a passion that gets all our family in the outdoors like I mentioned earlier our goats cannot pass on something they do not have, if we were to consider going into country where bighorn sheep reside we would fully test all our goats for M.ovi and go about it in the most responsible way possible.

 

[WesternBounty]

There is literature that reflects transmission of pneumonia and other diseases between domestic goats and bighorn sheep. While there have been studies with minimal samples that did not reflect a connection for specific pathogens, that shouldn't be used to somehow dismiss the studies that did identify a connection. As someone who is passionate about the conservation if our wild sheep, I personally think it would be irresponsible to take the risk based on cherry picking from a very small set of conflicting studies.

I respect your input in the matter. Goats are amazing animals like you said and you can rest assured we are very responsible goat packers

 

[washingtonalpine]

Goats are something I think I will have one day. Hunting alone and getting older I will need some help to keep hunting the backcountry the way I like to. Or maybe llamas.

Do you never leave the goats? How would you archery hunt with them?

You would never leave a goat unattended at camp, however I feel when making a stalk on an animal it is safe to tie them up nearby for a short time. I have done several successful spot and stalk hunts with my goats, spot the animal, tie the goats, move in for the shot. I’ve also had deer on two occasions walk right up to us completely unphased by me standing in the middle of them. One set of does began feeding 5 yards from me after they walked up to check out the goats. The only scenario I’ve ever had them spook or alert an animal is still hunting through noisy timber for blacktail. Quiet timber or Open country hunts are great with the goats. Another cool thing is to watch their behavior they will often smell, hear or see game before you can especially in cover. One of our successful bear hunts the goats spotted a bear feeding 250 yards away that we failed to notice in tall brush.

 

[RokSteady]

Cool article, thanks for sharing.

Do you have to gun train the goats so they don't panic on the shot?

What is a good average weight for full grown goats to pack?

 

[WesternBounty]

Cool article, thanks for sharing.

Do you have to gun train the goats so they don't panic on the shot?

What is a good average weight for full grown goats to pack?

Thank you! We did not train our goats for gun fire which is interesting because we had to do that for our bird dog. The goats never seemed to mind the sound of gunfire they do raise their head to it but being raised by you they just establish that trust and to them you are their "protector" "herd leader" so they don't spoke to much around you, and when they do they run towards you not away from you!

This is a great question. Obviously a lot falls into play here but typically a full grown whether (castrated male) can weight anywhere from 180-220 lbs. Breed plays a important role in this as well. I will attach a picture of one of our boys below February of 2020 he will officially be three years old here in this picture he is only 2 1/2.

 

[lak2004]

I've been tossing around the idea of goats and llamas for years now. I was not raised around horses or any other stock, so they seem like a good option based on that. The sheep country aspect is hard to get over, though I have not done enough research, but I live in SW CO with a native herd in my hunting grounds, your statement about not giving something they don't have because you have them tested makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the great article and pictures!

 

[sljensen]

Are there potential disease transmission issues to our wild goats and sheep that need to be considered ?

 

[WesternBounty]

I've been tossing around the idea of goats and llamas for years now. I was not raised around horses or any other stock, so they seem like a good option based on that. The sheep country aspect is hard to get over, though I have not done enough research, but I live in SW CO with a native herd in my hunting grounds, your statement about not giving something they don't have because you have them tested makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the great article and pictures!

Thanks for the reply; it sounds like goats (or llamas) would suit you well. It was something we had to consider as well before getting into pack goats even though we are not in sheep country often.