On hunting with less efficient weapons

The entire industry lobbies. Singling out crossbow manufacturers seems silly. Who do you think supported straight wall seasons? The addition of most specialized seasons and the way those seasonal regulations are written is almost entirely due to industry lobbying.

Straight walls isn't a thing anywhere I hunt and if it were, it wouldn't impact the hunting pressure really at all and would have a miniscule impact on harvest compared to shotguns. Firearms aren't a new industry that i've never supported either. They dont need straight wall laws to prop up the entire industry. There is already excessive technology available to kill animals. We dont need more and more new tech lobbying to make their industry viable at the cost of our wildlife.

I do care about significantly increasing the pressure and harvest during archery season and making it harder than it already is for a deer with decent genetic potential to make it to maturity.
 
Longer seasons,
more opportunity,
increased challenge

The felon thing was mentioned and it is true. I know of a felon who is a big archery hunter. From what i've heard, he's good at it too.

Archery is a lifestyle, not a hunting method. You have to shoot year round in order to be proficient.
 
I bowhunt and rifle hunt, and have lived/hunted in a few different regions of the country. I think there's two big factors in this conversation.

First, I don't think it's just that one weapon is more or less lethal than the other. More like, we tend to stretch a weapon's capabilities out so that it ends up being a wash. Plenty of rifle hunters whiff on 200 yard shots that they've never practiced, just like some bowhunters will launch arrows well past their effective distance. As the technology has gotten better on both fronts, I don't think we improved our wounding rate so much as stretched our expected distances while keeping wounding pretty similar.

Second, you've got to consider tag availability and hunt opportunity. This is where you see a big split in opinion between eastern vs western hunters. Eastern whitetail hunters aren't usually limited by tag availability, so it's hard to care about weapon/tech restrictions when you might have unlimited antlerless permits.

For western hunters with more limited tags, weapons restrictions create more opportunity. I can hunt with a bow every year (with a lower success rate), or a rifle every 3 years (with a higher success rate).
 
100% this is a quasi-religious topic. it's also not a one-size fits-all answer, ie the answers dont apply across the board to every situation, etc. First, @Annapolis are you intimately familiar with the North American Model and the conservation funding mechanism that is built into hunting "opportunity"? If not, imo it's not possible to have this conversation without that understanding, it's the bedrock behind the season structures (rifle+archery+muzzleloader) we have in nearly all cases.

After that, yes, at some level with any weapon you get a "fringe area" at the edge of effective range for many users where animals get wounded--that might be a slightly different rate, and it might come at different distances or conditions, dending on some variables--but it does exist with all weapons. As far as a less efficacious weapon with a "category", ie recurve versus a compound versus a crossbow...technology changes, sometimes very quickly. Are you going to mandate that everyone buys a new bow every season to "keep up"? Are you going to force longtime archery hunters to start using a crossbow? Those crossbows were illegal for almost everyone just a few years ago. My dads old rifle has sentimental value, is it now illegal to hunt with becasue it doesnt have a dialing scope allwoing me to shoot it accurately at long range? Every person will have a different effective range and ability to make an ethical shot using their weapon. Much of it relies on the person rather than the implement--I know plenty of people with steely nerves who shoot their vertical bow better than a newbie with buck fever will shoot their crossbow--how do we tell? Then we have other factors like noise--a crossbow is loud, and its not so fast that deer dont jump the string...is a 50-yard shot with a crossbow any more ethical than a 25 yard shot with a vertical bow, even if "groups" at the range are tighter, due to the likelihood of a deer ducking at the sound? There is always an element of self-responsibility regardless of the specific weapon, and knowing your own limits and staying within them. So its really hard for me to say that one persons preference of what they want to hunt with is necessarily a more or less efficacious choice, and whether it is more or less ethical. I think its good to have the conversation, and it's easy to throw stones at folks with a different perspective, I just havent yet found anything satisfactory other than just encouraging people to do the best they can to find their own limits and stay within them.
 
Archery is a lifestyle, not a hunting method. You have to shoot year round in order to be proficient.
This is inaccurate.

I have flung approximately 25 arrows in 2025. For shooting whitetail from a tree, inside 30 yards (which i try to limit to due to string jumping anyway), i'm fine. That comes after a lot of consistent practice in prior years but still its not hard to be good enough with a modern compound inside 30 yards after getting the basics drilled in.
 
The higher wound rates via archery *might be a false assumption, but archery equipment takes a lot more skill to master. Skill set is much higher the more primitive you go and drops off to about a 250 yard rifle shot and then it starts to go up again with rifle shots over 500 yards… that said I am a generalist. I hunt with what I will get a tag for. I prefer later rifle deer hunts, I prefer earlier elk bow hunts. Being confident in your skills, practicing and knowing your limits will result in the least amount of game wounded
 
This is inaccurate.
We have guys who shoot 100 yards with compound.
Other guys can hit a nickel at 50 yards every shot.
What about the instinctive stick & string guys? When you find a guy who has truly mastered that, it is awesome to watch.

Aint gonna get that good without significant practice. Kinda irresponsible to tell someone who has never shot a bow that they can just pick it up and go, isn't it?
 
Archery is a lifestyle, not a hunting method. You have to shoot year round in order to be proficient.
I think this is a bumper sticker I saw somewhere haha There is a sliver of truth in there for sure but it reminds me of the fly fishing purist or archery purists… it’s not a sport is a lifestyle thing, just razzing ya
 
I have flung approximately 25 arrows in 2025. For shooting whitetail from a tree, inside 30 yards (which i try to limit to due to string jumping anyway), i'm fine. That comes after a lot of consistent practice in prior years but still its not hard to be good enough with a modern compound inside 30 yards after getting the basics drilled in.
I get you.

my limit is 25 yds. Only get a quota permit every 3 yrs and shoot 10-20 arrows daily for about a month to get good enough to kill at that range. Shot daily for about 25 years when younger.
 
I think this is a bumper sticker I saw somewhere haha There is a sliver of truth in there for sure but it reminds me of the fly fishing purist or archery purists… it’s not a sport is a lifestyle thing, just razzing ya
I don't shoot or hunt archery much anymore - did for many years but got tired of deer jumping string and running off. Gimme a rifle, but inside 300 yards.
 
If the shooter stays within the limitations of whatever they are using, I don’t see an ethical difference - it won’t matter to the deer it’s just as dead if killed with a sharp stick or blasted in half with someone’s Super Duper Magnum at 50 yards. If someone isnt capable of understanding the limitations of their weapon, that’s a different question.

One great thing about growing up in a state like Wyoming is the seasons are long and opportunities are all over to challenge yourself with terrain from close in brush or timber to long open shots. Hunt one weekend with a bow, the next use a crossbow, the next use whatever. I’ve packed a 44 mag in case a close sneak is possible, and a Super Spangler rifle if the only shot is 500 yards away. I’ve declined to shoot does or meat bucks with a scoped rifle that are just standing 75 yards away. I feel bad for kids that are forced to be pigeon holed into one season and feel they have to kill everything they see.

We hunt for the challenge, or else we’d all go shoot a buck that eats out of a dog food bowl and lives in a coral. I feel a sense of accomplishment taking game with a pistol. Same for muzzleloader. Same for iron sighted 30-30. I think many here would say the same thing about the 223, or one of the Arc’s, or archery in general.

You DO owe the animal enough respect to not wound it and have it escape to die a long slow death, but a slob who can’t hit jack at 20 yards with a compound bow is no better than a traditional bow used effectively at longer distance.
 
Do you know what those are, by chance?

I know a guide who has helped hundreds if not thousands of hunters and he was telling me the number of wounded animals with archery blows rifle out of the water. I hesitate to post the wounding % he threw out there for archery guys.

Just like your guide, it's anecdotal. My experience comes from years of being associated with a family owned meat processing business witnessing wounded game animald that had been shot by rifles.

Same thing can be said for archery.
 
I hunt with a Muzzleloader because I enjoy the challenge of getting within 100 yards, it is easier to draw Muzzleloader tags and I prefer the seasons for Muzzleloader in NM. Elk is mid-late October so not too cold yet but not hot like the bow hunts. For deer, muzzleloader season is the first firearm season so they are much less pressured and again, not super cold yet.
 
I've hunted with a crossbow the last three years. I wasn't able to pull my bow back anymore due to a shoulder injury. I had it fixed a few months ago, so I should be good to go next year. I honestly don't think a crossbow is that big of an advantage compared to modern compound bows. It just makes up for skill and discipline. You don't need to practice nearly as much to kill something. Mine will group great out to 70-80 yards but hunting in the east, good luck shooting that far. Also, I don't care how accurate the crossbow is, the deer could move a lot before the arrow gets there. Furthest I've shot a deer with mine was 40 yards. If I shoot my crossbow offhand at 40 yards, I'm actually more accurate with my regular bow. I can group better if I'm shooting a lot. The crossbow just eliminates the shooting a lot part.

The biggest thing I noticed is it makes it like rifle hunting to me. I like rifle hunting but, it's not anywhere near as exciting to me as bow hunting. Looking through that scope makes it somehow detached, like watching a video of someone shooting something. Bow hunting, I've gotten tunnel vision I was so pumped up for a shot. Rifle and crossbow never do that for me, even with a big buck. That's why I like bow hunting better.
 
Aint gonna get that good without significant practice. Kinda irresponsible to tell someone who has never shot a bow that they can just pick it up and go, isn't it?

my limit is 25 yds. Only get a quota permit every 3 yrs and shoot 10-20 arrows daily for about a month to get good enough to kill at that range. Shot daily for about 25 years when younger.

Kind of a non-sequitur to say it is irresponsible to tell someone they don't have to shoot year round and then admit a couple of posts later that you do that very thing - only shoot for a about a month before the season, isn't it?

My reply was not directed to the OP - it was in response to the other joker that said "You have to shoot year round in order to be proficient." That is an incorrect and inaccurate blanket statement that certainly does NOT apply to all archers or bowhunters. And you are proof of it - - - in your own words!
 
It's not like I'm hunting to make sure there is food on the table for my family. If I calculated how much I spend on licenses , gear, travel...etc. for hunting, I would be better off just heading to the grocery store. So it comes down to that I enjoy hunting, I enjoy being outdoors, reading sign, figuring out the best place to set up. If all my efforts pay off and I kill an animal, that's icing on the cake. It's not about increasing my odds, its about decreasing my odds and still succeeding. Don't get me wrong, as a young man I was all about success - it was disappointing if I went hunting and didn't get anything. But, I've killed enough animals, I don't need another notch in my belt, it's about experiences for me now. That's why I transitioned from compound to recurve/longbow. To be honest it got pretty easy to kill a deer with my compound, I think mostly because I wasn't taking 50+ yd shots. I set up, so that I would always be shooting at under 25 yds, usually closer. Unless something really unusual happened, that was pretty much a chip shot. With my recurve, I like them inside of 15 yds. Now I've went down the rabbit hole of building my own self bows, from trees I have went out and harvested, split, dried.... Last year I shot a deer with my self bow from a make shift brush ground blind at about 4yds. That was satisfying. The same deer shot at 75 yds with a scoped cross bow wouldn't have done anything for me.
 
Back
Top