Not Seeing the Speed - RL26 in 300 WSM

[ShortMountain91]

So I finally decided to load up some rounds with RL 26 for the 300 WSM. Taken awhile to get around to it since I already have a working load with H4350 but was excited to start since I've read about all the speed folks are getting out of RL 26. So yesterday I loaded up 6 rounds to do a quick check if I hit any pressure signs. Winchester virgin brass, Fed 215M, 180 nosler ballistic tips, loaded to 2.828" COAL, about 0.060" jump in my rifle. Loads were 69.3, 69.9, 70.5, 71.1, 71.7, and 72.3. Did not see any pressure signs but what threw me off was I wasn't seeing the blazing speeds everyone seems to be posting for this magic powder. So much so it's got me second guessing my Caldwell chronograph. Speeds were as follows:

69.3 - 2804
69.9 - 2833
70.5 - 2842
71.1 - 2886
71.7 - 2915
72.3 - sun came out, tried to rig up a shade but must have done something wrong because this measured 2756

This is out of a 23" Xbolt HC Speed. 62 gr of H4350 yields 2842 with a SD of 3.8 and ES of 9 in this same setup per said Caldwell chronograph which seems more in line with what I see in Hogdons published data. Berger has some 300 WSM data with RL 26 and 180s with a starting load of 69 gr yielding 2948 fps but with a 26" barrel.

What do you guys think? Chronograph maybe bad? Just a slow barrel? Or maybe these numbers just aren't all that off? All these loads are compressed except 69.3 and I've found some QL data that begins the "dangerous load" warning at 74 gr so not sure how much more I wanna try stuffing in this thing although I haven't seen any pressure signs yet from those 6 rounds.

 

[BigDog00]

Seems slow. Could be the chrono and/or a slow barrel. I don’t have the data in front of me but I believe around 71.5 gr of RL26 with a 180gr Elite hunter I got ~3050 fps. This is out of a 24” Bartlien.

Factory Nosler Trophy Grade 180gr accubonds we’re right at 2900.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ShortMountain91]

Seems slow. Could be the chrono and/or a slow barrel. I don’t have the data in front of me but I believe around 71.5 gr of RL26 with a 180gr Elite hunter I got ~3050 fps. This is out of a 24” Bartlien.

Factory Nosler Trophy Grade 180gr accubonds we’re right at 2900.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep a little over 3000 was where I was expecting / hoping to get. I do have maybe 6 or so left of the nosler trophy grade with the 180 accubonds. Should probably verify chrono with someone else's then try shooting the nosler factory stuff to see how fast it's going in this barrel

 

[A382DWDZQ]

I ran it through QL and it seems slow also. I don't think it is your barrel or your chrono, based on what you're getting with H4350, which seems right. You're getting about 40fps more than what QL says with the H4350, and with 72gr of RL26, it shows 3,030 fps. Your results, with the exception of the 70.5, 71.1, and 72.3, are pretty close to the 28fps difference that QL shows between 0.6gr increments, and the velocities line up pretty close with a ladder of 67.2-69.6. So from that, I would guess that its your batch of RL26 that is burning slower than expected. Maybe it has absorbed some moisture content, or maybe it is just that lot. I would keep working up and see where you actually hit pressure on it, and if it is around 75, then that's probably what it is. Maybe go to 0.3gr increments for that to be safer. If that does end up being the case, then just keep in mind that it might start to dry out over time and your load will slowly get hotter for the same charge weight, or if you switch to a new lot, you should do a few test shots with some charges around 67-69.

 

[ShortMountain91]

I ran it through QL and it seems slow also. I don't think it is your barrel or your chrono, based on what you're getting with H4350, which seems right. You're getting about 40fps more than what QL says with the H4350, and with 72gr of RL26, it shows 3,030 fps. Your results, with the exception of the 70.5, 71.1, and 72.3, are pretty close to the 28fps difference that QL shows between 0.6gr increments, and the velocities line up pretty close with a ladder of 67.2-69.6. So from that, I would guess that its your batch of RL26 that is burning slower than expected. Maybe it has absorbed some moisture content, or maybe it is just that lot. I would keep working up and see where you actually hit pressure on it, and if it is around 75, then that's probably what it is. Maybe go to 0.3gr increments for that to be safer. If that does end up being the case, then just keep in mind that it might start to dry out over time and your load will slowly get hotter for the same charge weight, or if you switch to a new lot, you should do a few test shots with some charges around 67-69.

View attachment 487409

Wow thanks for a very detailed response. I hadn't thought of it possibly being the powder itself. Very interesting. I will probably work up a few more and see what happens. I wonder if I could maybe set out just a bit of powder and blow dry it outside just to ensure there's not a moisture problem. Don't really know, have never encountered this.

 

[35WhelenAI]

I ran it through QL and it seems slow also. I don't think it is your barrel or your chrono, based on what you're getting with H4350, which seems right. You're getting about 40fps more than what QL says with the H4350, and with 72gr of RL26, it shows 3,030 fps. Your results, with the exception of the 70.5, 71.1, and 72.3, are pretty close to the 28fps difference that QL shows between 0.6gr increments, and the velocities line up pretty close with a ladder of 67.2-69.6. So from that, I would guess that its your batch of RL26 that is burning slower than expected. Maybe it has absorbed some moisture content, or maybe it is just that lot. I would keep working up and see where you actually hit pressure on it, and if it is around 75, then that's probably what it is. Maybe go to 0.3gr increments for that to be safer. If that does end up being the case, then just keep in mind that it might start to dry out over time and your load will slowly get hotter for the same charge weight, or if you switch to a new lot, you should do a few test shots with some charges around 67-69.

^^^This^^^

Powder lot variation.

If other powders are achieving the intended velocity at/around loading book charge weights, AND the powder is not compromised ("damp" as was mentioned) I would not be uncomfortable working up toward book velocity even if it was with slightly higher powder weights as was shared above.

 

[sndmn11]

The powder is too slow. We have an xbolt and use Staball for over 3100fps with 175LRX

 

[ShortMountain91]

^^^This^^^

Powder lot variation.

If other powders are achieving the intended velocity at/around loading book charge weights, AND the powder is not compromised ("damp" as was mentioned) I would not be uncomfortable working up toward book velocity even if it was with slightly higher powder weights as was shared above.

Yep agreed. I've got some of the powder in a mason jar now with one of those humidity control packs to condition it to 49% RH. Gonna leave it in there a few days then do a few more rounds. If nothing changes I'll just chalk it up to lot variation. And keep working it up slowly but not sure how much more I can stuff in there as it's already quite compressed

 

[ShortMountain91]

The powder is too slow. We have an xbolt and use Staball for over 3100fps with 175LRX

Came very close to buying some to try out last time I seen it in sportsman's. Haven't seen it in a couple months now. Seems like great powder

 

[sndmn11]

Came very close to buying some to try out last time I seen it in sportsman's. Haven't seen it in a couple months now. Seems like great powder

It should be readily available online at most of the obvious places. Metering is very easy, it has made me dislike reloading other powders.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Shortmountain, folks are getting great velocity with RL26 and 180 gr bullets in the 300 WSM, I assume? And in a 23" bbl?

You mention Berger data from a 26" bbl. Let's play the game and say you lose 30 fps per inch x 3". That puts the Berger data at 2858 fps vs your 2804 for essentially the same charge as their starting load. I suspect Berger gets data in a test barrel with a chamber cut to minimum specifications. A small amount tighter vs your chamber that has to feed/chamber every round that may be put in it will give a bit lower velocity for your bbl all else equal.

sndmn11 has a point as well. Looking at StaBall 6.5, it produces excellent velocity. 300 WSM is a smaller case than say a 300 Win Mag, so in general slightly faster powders will get best results.

However, as you aren't at book velocity yet (without going to heavy compression), keep on keeping on with RL26 until you reach book velocity or run out of case room, whichever comes first.

Typically, a lightly compressed load that the bullet gently touches the powder is as far as I would go.

 

[B23]

I think the Winchester WSM brass has slightly more case capacity than many of the others and possibly even more than what QL has for a default case capacity. I'm not sure because I don't have any Winchester 300 WSM brass to measure but I thought I once read it was somewhere around 83 grains H2O or maybe even a bit more than that and when you bump up the case capacity in QL and put your load in, your speeds really aren't that far off of what you're getting. The caveat to that is it would have likely shown a little slower with your other loads and from what you posted it didn't.

With the RL26 loads compared to your others, is that new brass, once fired, many times fired???

 

[ShortMountain91]

Shortmountain, folks are getting great velocity with RL26 and 180 gr bullets in the 300 WSM, I assume? And in a 23" bbl?

Yes, some report tremendous velocities. Mostly 24" barrels since that's more standard.

You mention Berger data from a 26" bbl. Let's play the game and say you lose 30 fps per inch x 3". That puts the Berger data at 2858 fps vs your 2804 for essentially the same charge as their starting load. I suspect Berger gets data in a test barrel with a chamber cut to minimum specifications. A small amount tighter vs your chamber that has to feed/chamber every round that may be put in it will give a bit lower velocity for your bbl all else equal.

Agree it's not far off but wouldn't explain why my H4350 load is a little faster than the QL data suggests in the same gun. Makes me lean more toward the powder.

However, as you aren't at book velocity yet (without going to heavy compression), keep on keeping on with RL26 until you reach book velocity or run out of case room, whichever comes first.

Typically, a lightly compressed load that the bullet gently touches the powder is as far as I would go.

Have loaded up and shot 72.6 gr of RL 26 already and that would be about 105% case fill. I'm already in the powder which is why I'm hesitant to go up much more.

With the RL26 loads compared to your others, is that new brass, once fired, many times fired???

Interesting about the case capacity difference. I would like to rule out the powder being exposed to high humidity first but if that doesn't show anything might have to read into that more. My load of 62 gr H4350 is in nosler once fired brass. The load I'm working on with the RL 26 is in virgin Winchester brass. Same bullet at same COAL though.

 

[wind gypsy]

Interesting about the case capacity difference. I would like to rule out the powder being exposed to high humidity first but if that doesn't show anything might have to read into that more. My load of 62 gr H4350 is in nosler once fired brass. The load I'm working on with the RL 26 is in virgin Winchester brass. Same bullet at same COAL though.

My $ is on @B23 nailing it with the brass. Higher capacity and in virgin form = lower pressure and velocity.

RL26 is on the slower side (burn rate) for 180s IMO but I've never tried it. H4350 w/ 180s and H4381 (closer to RL26 burn rate) for 200+ in my xbolt 300wsm shoot too well to mess with anything else.

 

[ShortMountain91]

Well I did a little experiment today. Put some of the RL 26 in a mason jar with a boveda humidity pack to condition the powder to 49% RH for 4 days. After that loaded up 2 rounds with the conditioned powder. Both at 69.3 grains, one in the same virgin Winchester brass, one in Winchester 1 x fired. Seen speed bumps on both those rounds but still not what I would expect from the QL data. Virgin 69.3 yielded 2816, once fired yielded 2825. Still about 80 FPS off what I would expect at that charge. I'm guessing this lot is just burning a bit slower. I could throw in some silica packs and probably speed it up some more by getting the RH even lower but think I'll just keep working up until I get pressure or can't seat the bullet anymore.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Good plan, and thanks for reporting back.

 

[ShortMountain91]

Figured I'd update this thread in case someone else runs into this in the future.

Loaded up some more 73.2 to 74.7 in 0.3 gr increments. Stayed right around that 80 to 90 fps off what I would expect from QL as before with 74.7 landing at 3065 fps. Never had any pressure signs but will probably top it out at 74.7 as it's nearing book max velocity and is plenty fast. Will load some up and test groups next.

For anyone reading this last post, please don't start near these charges! If you will read above I have found I have a lot of RL26 that is on the slower burning side which is why I'm shooting these a decent bit over book max. Stay safe and work em up!

 

[sndmn11]

Never had any pressure signs but will probably top it out at 74.7 as it's nearing book max velocity and is plenty fast. Will load some up and test groups next.

Load some up above that so you know, rather than are guessing, at what is your max. That will give you confidence in your process moving forward, and help in the long run.

 

[Flyjunky]

Figured I'd update this thread in case someone else runs into this in the future.

Loaded up some more 73.2 to 74.7 in 0.3 gr increments. Stayed right around that 80 to 90 fps off what I would expect from QL as before with 74.7 landing at 3065 fps. Never had any pressure signs but will probably top it out at 74.7 as it's nearing book max velocity and is plenty fast. Will load some up and test groups next.

For anyone reading this last post, please don't start near these charges! If you will read above I have found I have a lot of RL26 that is on the slower burning side which is why I'm shooting these a decent bit over book max. Stay safe and work em up!

How new is that lot of powder, when did you buy it?

When we switched to a new lot of RL26 last year we had to bump up a full 1.6 to get back to the velocity node we were in before. We’ve been using RL26 for years in 4 different rifles and this is the first time we’ve ever noticed this much difference in a lot of powder. It will be interesting when we break into the next 8lb jug to see how it compares. Our experience is not uncommon in regards to some new lots of RL26.

 

[ShortMountain91]

How new is that lot of powder, when did you buy it?

I bought it around the end of 2020. It has a code printed on it of 061820. I'm assuming that's a June 18th, 2020 manufacturing date. I ended up finding it right when I started building my house so took awhile to finally start loading with it.