North American Non Lead Partnership Opinions

[Ratbeetle]

I prefer to use monos and I appreciate that this is a voluntary initiative, however I'm skeptical. Hunting ammo doesn't amount to a drop in the bucket compared to what target shooters use in a year.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and there are many who would love to use any traction this gets to go after all ammo.

 

[KurtR]

Yes, but the referenced study specifically established a correlation between the cessation of use of lead ammo and the blood lead levels of raptors. The lead very obviously came from bullets.



As shown in the screenshot above, copper monos cost about the same as any decent hunting ammo.



They definitely need to be used correctly to work... As is the case with lead-core ammo. Everyone knows Core Lokts frequently experience jacket separation at high impact velocities.




Agreed, and exactly the point of this thread!

it is 36.00 for 50 6.5 tsx it is 34.00 for 100 143 eldx. That’s double the cost right off the bat. Not interested in loaded ammo shot just shy of 1000 rounds last year. So that right there is 360.00 more that for a bullet that does not shoot as good. Guys come out prairie dog hunting shoot thousands of rounds in one weekend that adds up real quick and they don’t blow up as good with mono bullets

 

[S.Clancy]

I guess I’m a bit skeptical, if you want to spend your time, money and energy “helping” wildlife is this the area you’d but it in?

This is always my argument. If your goal is really helping wildlife, and you have half a brain, you go after habitat, either improving habitat or go after land, like RMEF.

 

[87TT]

If I remember right. Ca started with lead free in just a few zones to protect the condors. Which were getting ground up in the wind machines which they claim are the future "green" energy. Then they made all hunting ammo lead free, including 22 and shotgun. Now they are going to make ALL ammo lead free in the state. No 22 plinking, no practice ammo, no handgun ammo, trap and skeet with steel shot. Just No. We are not losing that many birds. I smell a mole in that initiative.

 

[rayporter]

i cant buy into it. it will lead to a wholesale ban on lead ammo state wide if you give them a chance. some of the most attended rifle matches in the nation are held in phoenix and there is not one non lead bullet shot in competition. it would kill the shooting at phoenix.



just like this;
Friday, February 21, was the bill introduction deadline in the California legislature. We anticipate the legislature will make another aggressive push at our Second Amendment Rights and hunting heritage in the Golden State. At this time, the full picture of what we can expect from the introduced bills is not clear because of placeholder/spot bills that are common ahead of the deadline. Your NRA will continue to keep you updated as the bills evolve, however, gun owners should be aware of two incredibly dangerous bills that were introduced.

AB 3071, sponsored by Assembly Member Kevin Mullin (D-22), prohibits the use of ammunition that has not been certified as lead free at sport shooting ranges and indoor ranges. It also prohibits shooting ranges from selling or giving away ammunition that has not been certified as lead free and requires signage that lead ammunition is prohibited for use at the facilities.

 

[LaHunter]

They just wanna put the tip in, no big deal.

Laughed out loud when I read this.
Really puts in into perspective.

 

[OXN939]

i cant buy into it. it will lead to a wholesale ban on lead ammo state wide if you give them a chance. some of the most attended rifle matches in the nation are held in phoenix and there is not one non lead bullet shot in competition. it would kill the shooting at phoenix.

This is actually a perfect example- Arizona has been at the forefront of this program for years and there has been zero impact to competitive shooting of any kind, lead projectiles or otherwise. The only effects have been people winning free elk tags, free rifles and gift cards to Sportman's Warehouse.

Thanks all for the input, interesting to see.

 

[rayporter]

easy to say now.

and yet look at the state next door. they did not start out going after target shooters either.

 

[Okhotnik]

This is exactly why I started this thread; I'm very legitimately interested to know who "they" is. To reiterate, the Non-Lead Partnership I'm talking about is a completely voluntary initiative started by hunters for hunters to protect wildlife, and is not affiliated with any kind of government agency in any form. Wouldn't a case study of outdoorsmen proactively taking steps to protect wildlife like this make it really easy to argue that government involvement is unnecessary and heavy-handed? If someone can show me an example of an initiative like this leading to negative consequences for outdoorsmen, I'm all ears.

Curious but are you paying attention what's going on now in your home state?

 

[Okhotnik]

This is actually a perfect example- Arizona has been at the forefront of this program for years and there has been zero impact to competitive shooting of any kind, lead projectiles or otherwise. The only effects have been people winning free elk tags, free rifles and gift cards to Sportman's Warehouse.

Thanks all for the input, interesting to see.

Interesting. Can you shoot steel shot at trap and skeet ranges?

 

[Okhotnik]

So they watched those birds eat gut piles that hunters have left. Lead is found in lots of stuff. Then you talk cost of one box of bullets but what about a thousand and I have had two tsx just pencil through deer.

A lot of naive "sportsmen" will buy into this nonsense and help push gun control

 

[87TT]

Interesting. Can you shoot steel shot at trap and skeet ranges?

Not in ATA. You want to shoot steel through a $10,000 trap gun?

 

[Okhotnik]

Not in ATA. You want to shoot steel through a $10,000 trap gun?

Of course you can't but the OP has no clue unfortunately

 

[ODB]

I guess I’m a bit skeptical, if you want to spend your time, money and energy “helping” wildlife is this the area you’d but it in?

It’s like PETA claiming to help animals by “investing” millions of dollars in a goddam super bowl commercial. See the cat, see the cradle?

 

[Okhotnik]

This is actually a perfect example- Arizona has been at the forefront of this program for years and there has been zero impact to competitive shooting of any kind, lead projectiles or otherwise. The only effects have been people winning free elk tags, free rifles and gift cards to Sportman's Warehouse.

Thanks all for the input, interesting to see.

How much would a brick of copper .22 ammo cost?

 

[OXN939]

Curious but are you paying attention what's going on now in your home state?

I sure am. I think you're having some difficulty connecting the dots here, so I'll help you out- this is a group of sportsmen trying to raise awareness among other sportsmen. As someone who is literally on the front lines of fighting government encroachment specifically pertaining to gun control, I'm very capable of recognizing the difference.

Please keep your posts civil, like literally everyone else on here who is having a polite discussion, or get off the thread.

 

[Okhotnik]

I sure am. I think you're having some difficulty connecting the dots here, so I'll help you out- this is a group of sportsmen trying to raise awareness among other sportsmen. As someone who is literally on the front lines of fighting government encroachment specifically pertaining to gun control, I'm very capable of recognizing the difference.

Please keep your posts civil, like literally everyone else on here who is having a polite discussion, or get off the thread.

Everyone else can connect the dots but apparently you cant.

I was just reading an article by the HSUS that said hunting and killing animals causes global warming. Maybe we should ban all hunting then to save our planet.

wow, sorry I hurt your feelings

 

[Desk Jockey]

I am of a divided mind on this. I mostly bow hunt but switched to non lead ammo for rifle hunting. Personal choice borne out of my desire to ingest less lead over my lifetime. So in that sense, I am a fan of voluntary measures. I think the whole animals ingesting lead is a bit dubious and I haven’t been convinced it is a huge problem based on the studies I have read about. I am sure it has some impact, but things like windmills and domestic cats and car bumpers kill a lot more animals and no one is banning them. I also can’t imagine that the volume of lead hunters are putting into the environment is anything compared to other forms of pollution.

I am however strongly wary of the anti 2A crowd using any means to strangle gun ownership and shooting in general. Attacks on ammo have been a proven tactic. Ammo taxes. Restrictions on kinds of ammo, quantity you can purchase etc. it is all part of their agenda and it is effective. Raise the cost, kill the sport.

 

[Smithb9841]

Yes, but the referenced study specifically established a correlation between the cessation of use of lead ammo and the blood lead levels of raptors. The lead very obviously came from bullets.

There is other data that disputes this despite
a 99% compliance rate by hunters in the original section of California where the original non lead ban was implemented still show an increase in lead in blood levels of condors. And this is from University of Santa Cruz who did the initial study claiming lead ammo was the reason behind the higher levels of lead in blood.

If you do a little more reading you will see there were a lot of holes in the original research done by university of Santa Cruz. There are also other theory’s that explain how the condors were exposed to lead. You might want to look a little deeper

 

[Okhotnik]

There is other data that disputes this despite
a 99% compliance rate by hunters in the original section of California where the original non lead ban was implemented still show an increase in lead in blood levels of condors. And this is from University of Santa Cruz who did the initial study claiming lead ammo was the reason behind the higher levels of lead in blood.

If you do a little more reading you will see there were a lot of holes in the original research done by university of Santa Cruz. There are also other theory’s that explain how the condors were exposed to lead. You might want to look a little deeper

Research? Thats sound like too much work lol

If carrion laced with lead from hunters' bullets were killing animals we would see increased deaths of crows, ravens, raccoons, skunks, golden eagles, eagles and the raptors, magpies, Turkey vultures, coyotes etc.

There was a study regarding the deaths of condors and higher lead content in their blood. It was hypothesized that condors were getting their lead from gravel from the sides of roads due to the build up from decades of leaded gas that was dispersed along roadsides from vehicle exhaust. The tested the roadside gravel and found high lead content. But some apparently want to embrace the banning of all lead based ammo.

Ive been eating game for over 40 years and had my blood tested recently and my lead levels were extremely low.