NM 16B/22 DIY or Guided

[WIBowhunter23]

PM sent. I drew a 16B/22 second rifle tag last October. And a 15 first muzzy tag this year!

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Congrats!

 

[WIBowhunter23]

I hunted there about 6 years ago and we hired an outfitter to do a drop camp (which he no longer offers), best of both of worlds as we had someone familiar with the area drop us deep enough that we were away from the backpack/day hunters, and we had a packer on call if we got something down. I would call around to see if you can find someone to do a drop camp with packing services, if not I would go ahead and hire a reputable guide with horses to make the best of the tag. The wilderness is vast and its difficult to access some of the better areas without a plan to get the meat out.

Also the monsoon season can get pretty bad down there, as small creeks can turn ugly very quick, so watch where you camp and cross.

Good luck it a beautiful area with some great animals.

Thanks! You never said how you did? I have a lead on a guy that can drop me in and get an elk out.

 

[Riplip]

I had a great hunt with plenty of oppotunities to kill a bull, including one incredible encounter with a toad of a herd bull in the rain one evening. Bottom line I missed him clean at fifty yards, in hindsight a shot I shouldnt have taken as I was a novice to the archery and elk game. Two additional opportunities at solid bulls that week that my inexperience resulted in blown encounters that should have been realatively easy. I learned a great deal that trip and have put those lessons to use on several bulls since. You will have a great time, we were in elk everyday no matter which direction or terrain we hunted. Tons of rain that year, which was kind of a PIA.

 

[WIBowhunter23]

Sounds awesome...Thanks for sharing!

 

[WIBowhunter23]

If you don't mind me asking, since I'm relatively green myself, what were the rookie mistakes? Wind, other?

 

[Sage950]

Live in NM. I have hunted that unit many times. You should be in elk everyday. Totally doable to pack out an elk with two guys that are relatively fit and have the right equipment. If the creeks are running you can store your meat in plastic bags in the water. Lots of horse trails to follow in from the parking areas. Been a while since I drew it but every year I have its Jurasic park! Bulls screams all night long in the second season usually. Good luck

 

[WIBowhunter23]

[U]Sage950[/U] you got my heart pumping with a surge of adrenaline with your Jurassic Park comment! The next 4 months cannot pass quick enough. I've heard about the nightly screaming bulls from other as well. Can't wait! The problem with pack out is I will be coming solo, unless I can convince my brother to come down for a NM vacation, but he has his own hunts to plan for. I heard the meat in the creek trick from another hunter as well, so was planning on bringing plastic bags down with me. Is there typically water in the creeks or are they often dry? Thanks for your reply and advice!

 

[Azcampman]

Well my lottery ticket hit this week and I landed a 16B/22 2nd archery tag. I have now started the frantic investigation and research on google earth, onx & of course forums. I really want to go DIY, but it would be my first solo elk hunt and this unit may be a tough one to cut my teeth on. I hunted near Chama last year with Rios Brazos on a guide tag and was lucky enough to take a 5x5 bull with my bow. Been immersed in elk articles, shows, elk 101, elknut app, elk podcasts & practicing my calling since I left NM last September. I guess you could say I'm officially addicted!

My brother & I have been gearing up with all of the DIY essentials for the past 6 months in preparation for a WY general tag backpack hunt, but now I was lucky enough to pull possibly a once in a lifetime tag in the infamous Gila, so withdrew my WY application today. DIY would be extremely rewarding if I could get it done, but on the flip side I don't want to waste an opportunity at such a great unit and huge trophy potential. Torn between DIY with packer out, drop camp (in & out) & fully guided. Fully guided may be tough to swing financially with this year's events. Hard to predict the complete impact of what is yet to come. Interested in hearing from anyone that has gone DIY and how the experience went. Also looking for packer/ drop camp contacts. Any info anyone is willing to share to help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance for helping another addicted rookie elk hunter!

Congrats and good luck looking foward to hearing how this went as I got lucky too with the first rifle hunt following!!

 

[slim9300]

trophyhill, I went there in August for a little logistics scouting trip, I saw groups of cows feeding and wouldn’t see a single calf with them. Locals claimed the bears had become efficient at getting calves at calving season. On my hunt there were areas that had more bear sign than anywhere I’d ever been. The freshest tracks we would usually find were bear tracks on top of whatever others tracks. I love that wilderness it’s a very special place, hard to find that kind of remoteness. I was there on a pack trip in September of 1992, big screaming bulls every where! 2002 early archery was dry but we found elk decent enough. 2017 showed me that for elk that place isn’t what it use to be when it built its reputation. Sad! When you don’t see calves there literally is no future in that. I don’t game and fish have any accurate pop numbers, or worse, aren’t honest about it, I suspect they spend no money to do any estimates anymore. Hunters need to stand together stronger, with the talk of wolves in Colorado, we just loose opportunity all the time. Not sure how effective the Mexican wolf in the Gila is as a predator on elk, but I’m sure they are get their share. Talked with a guy that hunted 16b last year, said he called wolves in on 2 occasions.

I was 16 miles back thanks to Becky in 2017 in unit 16b for three days of scouting and the entire 10 day archery season. We covered 7-20 miles each day on our feet. We saw quite a few elk, but nearly zero calves (nothing special from my perspective on overall numbers). My OTC Montana unit is quite a bit better. There is no doubt they have a bear problem. I had a boar come into my calls and walk into less than 20 yards. It had zero fear of humans because it had never seen one, or because it had never been hunted. We also heard two big kitties calling back and forth one morning in another area.

First thing I did when I got home was to call NM fish and game and suggest they do a better job of predator management.

16b is not really a trophy unit that can be compared to say 16a (which I have hunted) and 16d. We saw a few good bulls but the elk are nearly nocturnal even during the second archery season. They would bugle all night and we would follow them miles up into their bedding grounds before first light. They would stay bedded nearly the entire day and wouldn’t budge until dark. Daytime vocalizations were 5-10% of nighttime vocalizations. I was told by Becky that the peak of the rut is early October.

If I were you I would hire Becky and hunt off her horses. Most guys couldn’t cover 5-10 miles per day in this unit with the terrain and softball sized rocks everywhere you go. Not to mention pack one out. Did I mention it was 80+ degrees every day in late September?

My suggestion is to shoot a 310-320” bull like this one versus passing him for a bigger one. Pic was at 15 yards. My partner and I have killed a ton of elk and we cover lots of ground, and you will be lucky to have more than an shot opportunity every third day at any bull. Those are not great odds for killing a stud (which we filmed 3-4).

I waited over a decade for this tag and I would never apply again. I would rather hunt MT OTC any day of the week but keep in mind I really know my area there. Good luck!

Just my .02

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[NMframed]

+1 for Becky Campbell if you decide to hire an outfitter. I’ve visited with her a few times while I was hunting in there and she knows that unit as good as anyone. I don’t know Tom Kulmker but know he is also a reputable guide that seems to put people on the big ones.

First time I ever met Becky I packed in solo 19 miles with a saddle horse and two pack horses. I was about 10 or so miles in and the forest trail got pretty hard to see and rough with deadfall. I stopped to eat lunch and look at my map and I saw a guy on a black horse riding trough the trees just randomly all over the place(he was looking for a bow saw he lost a couple weeks earlier). He came over to me and we started talking. He asked where I was headed and I told him towards McKenna park. He told me I’d be better off to back track 3 miles and take the packers trail as the forest trails hadn’t been maintained in a few years. He told me he was guiding for Becky and that I’d be riding right past there camp, and that if I got into any trouble back in there by myself or needed anything to stop by.

2 years later I went back in there and I passed Becky and her crew while they were stopped for a break on the ride in (you won’t pass her on her walking horses unless she stops to give her hunters a break from the saddle), I visited with her briefly and also the guide that I had met on my first trip. My third day in there I had a horse run a burnt limb up into the inside of a hind leg. I cleaned it well and doctored it but after a couple days it got infected and he started getting pretty lame on it. I rode over to Becky’s camp to see if they had any penicillin. They didn’t have any but they did offer me a few drinks and some good conversation.

That second time I was in 16B I think 2013 or maybe 2014 can’t remember for sure. Saw wolves and talked to the trapper that was in there catching and collaring pups. Becky had the wolves come into her camp one night and pull about half the meat off a quarter that she said was hanging 8 to 10 feet off the ground. I can remember hearing the wolves howling and her dogs barking that night.

I don’t know what my she charges for a guided hunt but I do know that she will put you on elk and from my experience around her and her crew they are good people to be around.

 

[Gila]

There are places in that wilderness where some say no one has ever been. The elders say the Jaguar and the Grizzly are there. Your camp could be visited by chupacabra!

 

[trophyhill]

trophyhill, I went there in August for a little logistics scouting trip, I saw groups of cows feeding and wouldn’t see a single calf with them. Locals claimed the bears had become efficient at getting calves at calving season. On my hunt there were areas that had more bear sign than anywhere I’d ever been. The freshest tracks we would usually find were bear tracks on top of whatever others tracks. I love that wilderness it’s a very special place, hard to find that kind of remoteness. I was there on a pack trip in September of 1992, big screaming bulls every where! 2002 early archery was dry but we found elk decent enough. 2017 showed me that for elk that place isn’t what it use to be when it built its reputation. Sad! When you don’t see calves there literally is no future in that. I don’t game and fish have any accurate pop numbers, or worse, aren’t honest about it, I suspect they spend no money to do any estimates anymore. Hunters need to stand together stronger, with the talk of wolves in Colorado, we just loose opportunity all the time. Not sure how effective the Mexican wolf in the Gila is as a predator on elk, but I’m sure they are get their share. Talked with a guy that hunted 16b last year, said he called wolves in on 2 occasions.

I can tell you that is exactly what I saw a couple years ago. Those dominant Gila bears are meat eaters. Make no mistake about it. The amount of fresh bear sign we saw everywhere that year, and lack of fresh elk sign was disheartening. It was very dry that summer. Bears were roaming constantly looking for food. I've never seen that much bear sign anywhere. Ever! You won't find so much as a crum in my tent.

 

[280rem]

Well I wasn’t trying to rain on anyone’s parade, but I personally like to be told how it really is. I love that wilderness but the elk hunting just isn’t on par with the reputation anymore from my experience and we covered a huge chunk of it. I can only say, and with respect, there are some excellent outfitters there. But no one possesses the shear knowledge of that whole country that Becky does, I was also stunned at how reasonable her rate is when I asked. Like I couldn’t haul my horses and gear down there for that price. I was successful on that hunt and ultimately on information she generously shared with me on a non business level. I have hunted so many places where outfitters work against you or even sabotage or drive game away from you, so let that speak volumes. I’m not a customer of hers but couldn’t recommend someone more highly than I can her. She gets her clients on some big bulls and possibly other outfitters kill more big bulls than she, but if a 16b tag ever ended up in my pocket I’d call her so fast your head would spin and feel like that’s the only and best advice I could ever offer on that unit.

 

[Wapiti7]

WIBowhunter23, I'll be down there on same hunt. We had 6 of us draw that hunt on 3 different apps...which was bizarre. I'd send you a PM, but I'm still kind of a virgin (don't have 10 posts). Fear not, this will be a good hunt, however you decide to play it.

 

[Roper_25]

awesome unit. I drew a rifle elk hunt in 16A, should be interesting.

 

[Macdad]

I drew 2nd archery in 2017. In elk every day all day long. We never saw a bear. very dry . all the water holes we wanted to hunt were dry. This was Diamond creek area. Outfitter I used isn't in business anymore. Glad we had horses. and spike camp they had already set with water waiting

 

[WIBowhunter23]

Thanks everyone for the great info. Very grateful for these forums and hunters like yourselves that are willing to share info and experiences. I actually landed on a hybrid of sorts. I will be scouting for 1-2 days and then hunting on my own for the first 3 days of the season. Then in with Tom at San Francisco Creek Outfitters for another 6 days. Should I shoot one on my own we made an agreement that his team would pack it out for me. Best of both worlds as I wanted to hunt as much of the 10 days as possible. Will only miss one of the ten days packing in to Tom's camp on the 19th.

 

[NMframed]

Sounds like the perfect deal. If you’re not successful on your own I can just about guarantee that Tom will have you in elk everyday you’re with him with a very good chance of seeing some big bulls. Good luck and post some pics if you’re successful. I’ve always been fascinated by that wilderness

 

[WIBowhunter23]

I was 16 miles back thanks to Becky in 2017 in unit 16b for three days of scouting and the entire 10 day archery season. We covered 7-20 miles each day on our feet. We saw quite a few elk, but nearly zero calves (nothing special from my perspective on overall numbers). My OTC Montana unit is quite a bit better. There is no doubt they have a bear problem. I had a boar come into my calls and walk into less than 20 yards. It had zero fear of humans because it had never seen one, or because it had never been hunted. We also heard two big kitties calling back and forth one morning in another area.

First thing I did when I got home was to call NM fish and game and suggest they do a better job of predator management.

16b is not really a trophy unit that can be compared to say 16a (which I have hunted) and 16d. We saw a few good bulls but the elk are nearly nocturnal even during the second archery season. They would bugle all night and we would follow them miles up into their bedding grounds before first light. They would stay bedded nearly the entire day and wouldn’t budge until dark. Daytime vocalizations were 5-10% of nighttime vocalizations. I was told by Becky that the peak of the rut is early October.

If I were you I would hire Becky and hunt off her horses. Most guys couldn’t cover 5-10 miles per day in this unit with the terrain and softball sized rocks everywhere you go. Not to mention pack one out. Did I mention it was 80+ degrees every day in late September?

My suggestion is to shoot a 310-320” bull like this one versus passing him for a bigger one. Pic was at 15 yards. My partner and I have killed a ton of elk and we cover lots of ground, and you will be lucky to have more than an shot opportunity every third day at any bull. Those are not great odds for killing a stud (which we filmed 3-4).

I waited over a decade for this tag and I would never apply again. I would rather hunt MT OTC any day of the week but keep in mind I really know my area there. Good luck!

Just my .02

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I think it comes down to expectations and personal goals. Personally I would be extremely happy with a 310 bull or better. Anything better than that is just icing on the cake for me to be honest. It is just going to be great to be back in NM for the second straight year chasing these awesome animals! Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Gila]

Thanks everyone for the great info. Very grateful for these forums and hunters like yourselves that are willing to share info and experiences. I actually landed on a hybrid of sorts. I will be scouting for 1-2 days and then hunting on my own for the first 3 days of the season. Then in with Tom at San Francisco Creek Outfitters for another 6 days. Should I shoot one on my own we made an agreement that his team would pack it out for me. Best of both worlds as I wanted to hunt as much of the 10 days as possible. Will only miss one of the ten days packing in to Tom's camp on the 19th.

That is an awesome arrangement sir! I have no doubt you will be successful.

I am concerned about the water situation though. If you are hunting the wilderness you will need to find rivers, streams and springs that are wet. There won't be any tanks there. There was good snow pack in the Gila this winter, however we have not had any rain to speak of this spring. Some of the springs and small streams might dry up. Hopefully we get an early monsoon but it is something that bears watching. The outfitter should keep tabs on the situation and they will know. We can all hope for the best. I would like nothing better than to rid you of one of those pesky bears.