New Mexico’s super lotto

[Gila]

If you are a resident hunter in New Mexico, you may have noticed that the odds to draw a tag for any big game species has been cut in half. This goes for Do -It- Youself non-resident hunters as well. More tags are being handed to land owners who in turn sell them to the outfitters and hunt clubs.

EPLUS: The land owners who do not have enough elk on their property to hunt, quite often opt in for unit wide tags which can be used to hunt any public lands in the unit. What has happened is landowners are plopping down $350 (or whatever the small fee is now) getting an outfitter license and putting up cabins for their hunt clubs. The landowner/outfitters broker those tags, roll them into guided hunts or trade with other landowners/outfitters. More and more land eventually gets into land trusts and sold to investment firms on Wallstreet. This is what is going on in the primary elk management zones.

Secondary Elk Management Zones either border or run right through the Elk Primary Elk Management Zones. For the Secondary Management Zones, landowner tags are sold Over The Counter, no quota mostly either sex. Some of those Secondary Managment Zone elk hunts are allowed during peak rut, any weapon, either sex.

Most of the Pronghorn and Deer hunting is conducted very similar to the secondary elk management zone. Landowner tags are sold over the counter with no quota. Some GMUs have unit wide landowner tags for those species as well. Once again the Outfitters\landowners\huntclubs: trade, barter, or sell landowner tags. I have never been drawn for Pronghorn since I’ve been here which is 10 years. I have drawn three deer tags in 10 years, but two of those tags weren’t even worth hunting.

We were close to a solution to get more tags into the public draw last year when our anti-hunting and anti-gun Governor appointed Richard Stump to chair the Game Commission. Richard Stump is the hunting “program” manager for Trout Stalker Ranch which supposedly is owned by a law firm out East. Apparently, the ranch owners were a major donor to the Governor’s campaign. The fox is in the hen house:

Ep. 283: Landowner Tags and EPLUS Access with Jesse Deubel of the New Mexico Wildlife Federation | MeatEater Podcasts

For this week's interview, Cal talks with Jesse Deubel about elk tag distribution and the EPLUS system in New Mexico, why draw odds are slim for non-residents and residents alike, "Take Back Your Elk," and the new game commissioner. Connect with Cal and MeatEater Cal on Instagram and Twitter...

www.themeateater.com

Exposing the Truth About Elk Hunting License Allocation in New Mexico

In 2022, the New Mexico Wildlife Federation (NMWF) and New Mexico Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (BHA) released a groundbreaking report titled “Take Back Your Elk.” Looking at data from the 2020-21 elk season, the report documented for the first time exact

www.takebackyourelk.com

 

[NMNomad]

First time hunter here. Fingers crossed on drawing a tag this year. I appreciate the info.

 

[Ten Bears]

Sweet two year old podcast about your normal BS that has been debunked a billion times on here.

Even funnier is posting a link of a two year old podcast from a guy and company that hunts on said Landowner tags…

How’s Land Trust going champ ?

 

[Gila]

Sweet two year old podcast about your normal BS that has been debunked a billion times on here.

Even funnier is posting a link of a two year old podcast from a guy and company that hunts on said Landowner tags…

How’s Land Trust going champ ?

Anyone that can read knows all you do is post a barrel of crap! The only reason you post that dung is because you have skin in the game…go pound salt!

 

[Gila]

NMWF Conservation Director

“The newly elected chairman of the New Mexico State Game Commission is hunt manager on a ranch owned by a lawyer with Texas roots who unsuccessfully petitioned the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the public’s right to fish and recreate on New Mexico rivers and streams. The game commission on Thursday unanimously elected Richard Stump, hunt manager on the Troustalker Ranch south of Chama, to serve as commission chairman. The commission met in Hobbs.

‘The Troutstalker Ranch is owned by Dan Perry, a lawyer originally from Texas. As Perry has worked to try to block public access to public water in recent years, he and his relatives have made substantial contributions to Gov. Michelle Lujan Grisham’s political campaigns. Lujan Grisham appointed Stump to the game commission in March.”

——————————————————————————-

This just happened a little bit over a year ago. Basemap Hunt Planner was the first to come out with the draw odds from last year. The odds are half of what they were the year before. For residents we are talking about .5% to 10% for ANY GMU that is worth the time and money to hunt at all. With no preference points that could mean a resident wouldn’t draw a tag for years and years. 84% of half of the total tags available for a hunt isn’t very many tags. There are less tags then that in this year’s draw. The harvest rates are inflated. The vast majority of elk taken with eplus unit-wide landowners tags come from public lands. It’s all in the referenced podcast.

 

[Ten Bears]

Anyone that can read knows all you do is post a barrel of crap! The only reason you post that dung is because you have skin in the game…go pound salt!

I can’t tell if the irony in your posts is intentional or subconscious projection. Either way it’s pretty funny.

I am sure this will go as well as your APR thread did for you..

 

[Gila]

Some real losers posting on that AP thread. Lemmings with no sense or knowledge of the facts. Someone accused me of being a UPOM stooge….didn’t even know what it was…had to look it up. The only land trust for sportsmen that I know about is mentioned in Eastmans Tag hub. I can’t afford a hunt like that so never really looked into it. I expect the same trolls to show up here. A few trolls follow my threads no matter what the subject matter is. I put them on ignore again so I don’t know what they post because I never see what they write. Losers with nothing better to do than cause trouble. They contribute nothing to this forum.

 

[swavescatter]

I wish it were easier to draw tags, but you continually raise this issue without offering a realistic alternative that incentivizes landowners to open their lands to public hunting. Also there are several near 100% draw odds hunts for both deer and elk. Not easy glory tags but they keep my freezer full.

I went out and bought some land, but the thought of inviting random hunters onto my property keeps me from applying to eplus. I applaud those who do and I hunt eplus ranches often.

 

[Ten Bears]

you’re developing a Corey Feldman like vibe to your outdoor forum persona…and I think it’s great!

Thanks for the laughs..

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Rather than fighting about landowner tags, I would be more worried about fighting the major anti-hunting movement that is taking shape in NM. Nationally recognized and politically powerful anti-hunting org Wildlife For All is based there and they are fundraising off their victory with SB-005. They were able to rename the agency and limit hunters/anglers to a single seat on the commission. You are gonna need the support of landowners and outfitters when WFA, Sierra Club, Animal Wellness Action, and Center for Biological Diversity all come after hunting and trapping. Jesse Deubel of NMWF is busy making deals with these anti-hunting groups. They are likely to come after mountain lion and black bear hunting first. And when Deb Haaland takes over as Gov you will face the same problems plaguing Colorado currently. Buckle up pal.

 

[cuerro viejo]

We Killed a beautiful bull last year that we found via access through Eplus program, with out eplus access we never would of found him and it would of been additional 5 miles pack out, as that property block thousands of acres of NF.

I fully support the Eplus access program although I wish it also opened access to deer hunting, but I get that it’s not since deer tags are easy draw and OTC on private

Never seen so much disdain for land ownership and conservation.

 

[realunlucky]

We Killed a beautiful bull last year that we found via access through Eplus program, with out eplus access we never would of found him and it would of been additional 5 miles pack out, as that property block thousands of acres of NF.

I fully support the Eplus access program although I wish it also opened access to deer hunting, but I get that it’s not since deer tags are easy draw and OTC on private

Never seen so much disdain for land ownership and conservation.

Eplus system needs updating and oversight. While it's important to form an invested interest in wildlife with with private land owners so they support better habitat. Giving unit wide tags is detrimental to raising support within the hunting community. As seen with the wide spread opposition to the program.

The majority of hunters would support tags restricted to the confines of the private property as an acceptable solution.

Any change is unlikely to happen within new mexico's current political atmosphere.



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[cuerro viejo]

Eplus system needs updating and oversight. While it's important to form an invested interest in wildlife with with private land owners so they support better habitat. Giving unit wide tags is detrimental to raising support within the hunting community. As seen with the wide spread opposition to the program.

The majority of hunters would support tags restricted to the confines of the private property as an acceptable solution.

Any change is unlikely to happen within new mexico's current political atmosphere.



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I disagree, it’s a lack of education on how it amounts to a minute number of tags to open up millions of acres of land locked public. One unit wide tag opens up that property and access through for ALL elk seasons: Archery, ML, Rifle, Late archery, Late ML etc.

Perfect example of gaslighting by the OP

 

[realunlucky]

I disagree, it’s a lack of education on how it amounts to a minute number of tags to open up millions of acres of land locked public. One unit wide tag opens up that property and access through for ALL elk seasons: Archery, ML, Rifle, Late archery, Late ML etc.

Perfect example of gaslighting by the OP

Is e plus the best system- no
Is e plus system being exploited- yes

From an administrative stand point maybe the e plus system is the lower cost alternative which would add value in the back end of the program. If new mexico is investing those cost savings into other aspects of it's department it theoretically would benefit all sportsmen.

Many perspectives and some less visible than others for sure.

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[cuerro viejo]

Is e plus the best system- no
Is e plus system being exploited- yes

From an administrative stand point maybe the e plus system is the lower cost alternative which would add value in the back end of the program. If new mexico is investing those cost savings into other aspects of it's department it theoretically would benefit all sportsmen.

Many perspectives and some less visible than others for sure.

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No system is perfect, and I’m sure there are a few properties that are in it and we wonder why, but at end of the day, there is no other option that opens up hunting access to and across to millions of acres of public, that has zero out of pocket expenses to hunters.

The OP is specifically gaslighting the program, and conveniently leaves out what the program actually does. No disputing the public access it provides, thus why he refuses to acknowledge it.

 

[Gila]

Eplus system needs updating and oversight. While it's important to form an invested interest in wildlife with with private land owners so they support better habitat. Giving unit wide tags is detrimental to raising support within the hunting community. As seen with the wide spread opposition to the program.

The majority of hunters would support tags restricted to the confines of the private property as an acceptable solution.

Any change is unlikely to happen within new mexico's current political atmosphere.



Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

We are coming up on the fourth year of the four year evaluation cycle of the e-plus program. We should be giving landowners money for public access and habitat improvement instead of elk that is not harvested on their own property. Those tags belong in the random public draw because wildlife is owned by the public. I think most landowners would go for such access programs if they are carefully crafted and paid enough. I am not trying to preach to the choir because I know most of you are on the right side of the issue.

The gubernatorial election is this year. The current governor can’t run again. Deb Haaland is running however she lost quite a bit of support here because she allowed AP bison to graze on blm lands. Also, she refused to delist the Gray Wolf. There are communities that have been severely impacted by the Mexican Gray Wolf that won’t support her. The division in the state legislature over these issues is quite pronounced. The primaries are in June.

 

[Jethro]

The majority of hunters would support tags restricted to the confines of the private property as an acceptable solution.

Would they? Those would simply be landowner tags and general public would lose the private access that E-plus provides.

I won’t claim E-plus is perfect. But I’ve hunted and crossed a lot of private because of it. It’s not ruining NM hunting as much as constantly exaggerated by the OP

 

[Gila]

No system is perfect, and I’m sure there are a few properties that are in it and we wonder why, but at end of the day, there is no other option that opens up hunting access to and across to millions of acres of public, that has zero out of pocket expenses to hunters.

The OP is specifically gaslighting the program, and conveniently leaves out what the program actually does. No disputing the public access it provides, thus why he refuses to acknowledge it.

Most of the land eplus opens up is public lands to the buyers of unit wide landowner tags. We know for a fact that the vast majority of elk harvested with unit wide landowners tags come from federal and state lands. I am not doing anything, I have no agenda nor do I represent anyone but myself. There is no sense in gaslighting because the facts are out there for all to see. I am just bringing those facts to attention…What is the point in shooting the messenger? Listen to what Jesse has to say about the program. That’s how I learned about the facts.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Most of the land eplus opens up is public lands to the buyers of unit wide landowner tags. We know for a fact that the vast majority of elk harvested with unit wide landowners tags come from federal and state lands. I am not doing anything, I have no agenda nor do I represent anyone but myself. There is no sense in gaslighting because the facts are out there for all to see. I am just bringing those facts to attention…What is the point in shooting the messenger? Listen to what Jesse has to say about the program. That’s how I learned about the facts.

You play the victim every time you post up anti-eplus threads.

What about the millions of acres of public it opens up in addition to private, with no monetary costs to hunters… you fail to always mention that. Number one best benefit to Unit wide is access across to land locked public.


You want a cash lease fine, find out the true cost of cash leasing all that acreage, and then introduce the cost raises to tags via legislation to get that done.

How many hunters want to pay hundreds of dollars more for a tag, just to increase hunt codes by couple more Unit wide tags?

You just want the system cancel and have yet to supply a replacement program with feasibility costs to open up same amount of private and public land.

It’s one thing to cancel something you disagree with but it’s another to actually do the homework for a mutually beneficial replacement plan that’s actually feasible

 

[Gila]

Would they? Those would simply be landowner tags and general public would lose the private access that E-plus provides.

I won’t claim E-plus is perfect. But I’ve hunted and crossed a lot of private because of it. It’s not ruining NM hunting as much as constantly exaggerated by the OP

The elk aren’t on most of those ranches…The only benefit those properties provide is crossing to landlocked public lands….that’s it! There are some properties that are large enough and have the habitat to hold elk, but the acreage in comparison is quite small. You will find that the ranches that hold elk will go with ranch only tags. The properties that don’t hold elk go unit wide.