New long range shooter

[SHU574]

Want to get in to long range shooting.
What’s the best advice/piece of equipment one should have to be successful?

 

[nobody]

Buy a 223 bolt gun, put it in a properly designed and well made stock, put a reliable scope in solid rings on it. Then go put several thousand rounds through it in different conditions, from different positions, at different ranges, and learn to read wind and call misses. Assuming you have proper mechanics and solid fundamentals already this will be the best thing you can do for the lowest price and lowest recoil to learn “long range.”

Signing up for a Shoot2Hunt class would also be a great idea to go with that.

 

[SHU574]

Thanks for the info.
I have a very good shooting howa1500 mounted in an axiom stock fitted with a VX3i 4x14 scope and 2# Timney trigger

 

[7mm-08]

There are sound reasons that the U.S. military uses Kestrels.

 

[nobody]

Thanks for the info.
I have a very good shooting howa1500 mounted in an axiom stock fitted with a VX3i 4x14 scope and 2# Timney trigger

What’s it chambered in? How big are your 10 round groups?

Are you open to swapping the scope out? I would, without question. SWFA, Trijicon, Maven RS1.2, Nightforce.

Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL Field Evaluation

This is a field evaluation of a Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL scope. This scope was sent to Ryan Avery for an evaluation. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over 1.3 MOA. The scope and weight- Turrets...

rokslide.com

 

[TaperPin]

There are two extremes and many folks are somewhere in the middle.

The fastest route is to go all in, duplicate the equipment of a known good shooter, attend a class, shoot 1000 rounds the first month and you’ll be off to a great start. The other extreme of incremental improvement takes longer, but is also a great way to learn. Start slow, develop shooting skills at whatever pace is comfortable, and upgrade equipment and tweak techniques as your max range dictates.

There are slow and fast tracks for all budget levels. Either way, if you’re serious about getting better, shoot 10 shots in each position and every month or so shoot it again to see the incremental improvement. Whatever distance you’re comfortable shooting now, either increase it or decrease the size of the target. Dry firing a few shots each day will provide nearly as much benefit as live fire in the beginning. It’s hard to keep track of all the details over time so I suggest a simple small notebook to write down groups sizes, scope adjustments, reminders to yourself, and an equipment upgrade list as a reminder to not buy things you don’t need. I write down small scope adjustments and can tell over time how reliable the scope/mount/rifle is.

I always buy someone a 243 when they are ready to start shooting at distance, and that’s been my training gun for decades. An old wood stocked pawn shop 243 is the best bargain on the market - shoot it 1000 rounds and it can be sold for the same price it was purchased for - literally a free gun.

An accurate .22 rimfire, or 17 HMR for that matter, with a good trigger is quite a good teacher of position shooting, trigger control and follow through. If you only have a 100 yard range I’d definitely invest in a rimfire training rifle. Everything learned and all the muscle memory transfer 100% to long range centerfire.

Accurate rifles need good bedding, a crisp trigger that’s not too heavy, a solid scope mount that won’t move, a reliable scope, and a stock that fits the shooter. Anything else is window dressing, or is nice to have but not essential.

 

[TaperPin]

There’s no way around a rangefinder and wind meter. Many guys hunt without a wind meter, but you need something to teach the brain the difference between 15 mph and 5. Fancy one will include a ballistic solution, but if you’re only shooting 500 to 600 yards at big game simply taping a dope chart to the rifle is usually enough.

Get the best/longest distance rangefinder your budget will allow. $300 gets a pretty good sig these days. Don’t believe the stated maximum range - it takes a 2,000 yard max rating to barely read 500 yards reliably.

 

[hereinaz]

Want to get in to long range shooting.
What’s the best advice/piece of equipment one should have to be successful?

What’s your budget?
How fast do you want to become proficient?
How much do you want to learn on your own?
What state do you live in?

Get training, whether in person or online from a reputable long range school/system. I have seen some classes and schools that will teach you old tricks and techniques that don’t apply. But, the fundamentals are as old as time. Learn to control the rifle before and after the shot.

Focus on the fundamentals of marksmanship. Find videos and podcasts with Jacob Bynum of Rifles Only.

Buy and read Bryan Litz books from Applied Ballistics and watch ch whatever videos of his you can.

Do build and break drills at home every week. Being fast with simple gear will beat mediocre with expensive gear every day of the week.

Shoot 10,000 rounds in all conditions. If money is an issue sell what you have and buy a .223 so you can afford it. You’ll have to rebarrel a couple times, but barrels are like tires.

Go observe matches. PRS, NRL, NRL22, Fclass, benchrest, it’s all helpful. Go shoot some one day matches just to get a baseline for your skill. Borrow bags and gear.

Don’t just go buy or believe what one person says as “the truth”. Until you find some of the true experts in the field. And only believe the fundamentals.

If you want to buy something, dig behind “the why” someone recommends a piece of kit to you. It may sound good, but you won’t know till you try or you really figure out what you want to learn and why.

Besides ammo, buy a cheap rangefinder and download Apllied ballistics or Horndady 4dof. Learn how to use it.

Buy more barrels and ammo. Shoot another 10,000 rounds in all conditions as soon as possible.

It’s better to pay for training and ammo than gadgets.

But, it’s also fun to play with gadgets if you have the money. Just don’t confuse that with learning how to shoot long range.

Beware the man with one long range gun, he probably knows how to use it.

 

[SDHNTR]

A bow or a traditional muzzleloader. Seriously. Learn to hunt first, shoot second.

 

[SHU574]

What’s it chambered in? How big are your 10 round groups?

Are you open to swapping the scope out? I would, without question. SWFA, Trijicon, Maven RS1.2, Nightforce.

Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL Field Evaluation

This is a field evaluation of a Leupold VX-3HD 3.5-10x40mm CDS-ZL scope. This scope was sent to Ryan Avery for an evaluation. The ammunition used was Hornady Black 168gr AMAX that was purchased by Ryan. The 20 round proof group was just over 1.3 MOA. The scope and weight- Turrets...

rokslide.com

.223 never really shot a 10 shot group. It’s a fantastic shooting rifle very capable of 1/2 moa if I do my part @ 100 yards

 

[NSI]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DQwumAGRmz2I&ved=2ahUKEwjNqJWw07mLAxUYjYkEHWZ7MSkQwqsBegQIChAF&usg=AOvVaw2YMdI8KKt3CjaJ_2G9MlfQ

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D6yZyXwy40JM&ved=2ahUKEwjNqJWw07mLAxUYjYkEHWZ7MSkQwqsBegQIDRAG&usg=AOvVaw1r6aqgshANusJ_1aZAylPt

-J

 

[inkedspot]

223 and a lot of practice is really sound advice. Took almost 6000 rounds to burn out my first 223 barrel.

Take notes when you are shooting. What you thought the wind was, what you held, what did it really take

BELIEVE THE BULLET

If you thought you needed a mil of wind and you only needed 1/2, stop to understand what you have thought that is wrong. The bullet’s flight path doesn’t lie to you.

 

[Harvey_NW]

.223 never really shot a 10 shot group. It’s a fantastic shooting rifle very capable of 1/2 moa if I do my part @ 100 yards

It's probably not 1/2 MOA even if you do your part perfectly. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it by if you've never shot even a 10 shot group, or multiple 5 shot groups and correlated X & Y with POA, you probably don't know the actual cone of fire the system and shooter produce.

My advice is learn that first, and perfect your zero. Then you can use math to confirm the error. Shoot a 20 shot group at 100 yards as tight as you possibly can, and see how big the group is. If it's 1 MOA then that's what you can expect at any distance as long as you "do your part", because dispersion is linear (+ ~15% because the group would continue to grow if you were to continue sending rounds into it). If you miss a 1.5 MOA target at distance, or your group grows to 3 MOA sitting seated supported or shooting off a pack, you know it was shooter or computation error.

 

[hereinaz]

A bow or a traditional muzzleloader. Seriously. Learn to hunt first, shoot second.

Seriously. this is the long range hunting forum…

 

[hereinaz]

It's probably not 1/2 MOA even if you do your part perfectly. I don't mean that negatively, I mean it by if you've never shot even a 10 shot group, or multiple 5 shot groups and correlated X & Y with POA, you probably don't know the actual cone of fire the system and shooter produce.

My advice is learn that first, and perfect your zero. Then you can use math to confirm the error. Shoot a 20 shot group at 100 yards as tight as you possibly can, and see how big the group is. If it's 1 MOA then that's what you can expect at any distance as long as you "do your part", because dispersion is linear (+ ~15% because the group would continue to grow if you were to continue sending rounds into it). If you miss a 1.5 MOA target at distance, or your group grows to 3 MOA sitting seated supported or shooting off a pack, you know it was shooter or computation error.

Knowing this does help.

A perfect zero and knowing the rifle’s dispersion will help you by correctly sizing the plate and knowing whether a miss off the right was wind or just the gun.

If you have a 2 moa gun, then don’t shoot at 1 moa targets and say a miss is because of the wind.

If you can consistently shoot 1/2 moa groups you probably have a reliable enough rifle. A 10 shot group will likely be amount 1 moa.

On Rokslide, many are practical and evidence based, so for us it takes more than a 3 shot group to really know. We all know groups get cherry picked…

But, if you have consistent 3 shot groups of 1/2 moa then you are probably good.

 

[SDHNTR]

Seriously. this is the long range hunting forum…

Sure, I know. That wasn’t a swipe, it’s a genuine statement. I like long range shooting too. But hunting skills are more important, and imo, more difficult to learn. With today’s equipment, the shooting part is rather easy. My only point is learn the woodsmanship part first, then learn the shooting. You’ll be more successful in the long run. You have to find the critters first before you can shoot them.

 

[hereinaz]

Sure, I know. That wasn’t a swipe, it’s a genuine statement. I like long range shooting too. But hunting skills are more important, and imo, more difficult to learn. With today’s equipment, the shooting part is rather easy. My only point is learn the woodsmanship part first, then learn the shooting. You’ll be more successful in the long run. You have to find the critters first before you can shoot them.

Shooting part is easy?

I understand the sentiment you pose, but I disagree.
I learned to find game and hunt and how to shoot long range all at the same time. We can do all at the same time.

 

[SDHNTR]

Shooting part is easy?

I understand the sentiment you pose, but I disagree.
I learned to find game and hunt and how to shoot long range all at the same time. We can do all at the same time.

Easy is relative, but within 15 minutes the other day I had my young teen son easily hitting an 8” gong at 450 yards 100% of the time. And he’d never shot half that far before. That’s getting into LR territory to me.

It’s an old debate. You aren’t wrong and I’m not wrong. We can still be friends.

 

[Pickettpuncher]

Sure, I know. That wasn’t a swipe, it’s a genuine statement. I like long range shooting too. But hunting skills are more important, and imo, more difficult to learn. With today’s equipment, the shooting part is rather easy. My only point is learn the woodsmanship part first, then learn the shooting. You’ll be more successful in the long run. You have to find the critters first before you can shoot them.

How do you know that’s he’s not already Fred Bear of 2025? He’s asking about long range shooting, not really hunting, although it is in the long range hunting forum.

 

[hereinaz]

Easy is relative, but within 15 minutes the other day I had my young teen son easily hitting an 8” gong at 450 yards 100% of the time. And he’d never shot half that far before. That’s getting into LR territory to me.

It’s an old debate. You aren’t wrong and I’m not wrong. We can still be friends.

Sure, I do the same with kids and adults all the way out to 1000. Pulling the trigger without disturbing the rifle is pretty easy to learn, on a suitable mild recoiling rifle.

But, it is misleading to say even a 450 yard shot is easy. Your son doesn’t make the shot without your gear, knowledge and experience.

Yes, 450 is long range per my definition, because beyond MPBZ takes into account ballistics and environment, and it requires ranging to effectively hit.