New Leica 2800.COM - Initial Hands on Review

catorres1

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Back in the early fall, I was asked by Leica to test and provide feedback on a new their new rangefinder, the 2800.COM, that was announced today at SHOT. As I understand it, mine was one of the first 5 built and brought into the US, so was not a pre-production, but earlier still in the process, more like a prototype. I ran it under many conditions for about 3 months, testing it side by side with other RF’s, and wanted to provide some insight into what Leica is bringing to market.

It’s important to note that my unit was literally at the very front end of development and part of my role was to find problems and make suggestions for engineering to resolve/consider. So what comes to market will probably be a little different than what I have had for the past months, but the features and performance I’ll cover below should be uneffected. Overall, this is an impressive and competitive piece of kit they are bringing to market, and I can’t wait to see the production model.

What’s new
The 2800 shares most core features with the 2700b. Ranging and glass are the same, which is to say, excellent. Rather than rehash that data, check out my review on the 2700b. I tested both side by side, and they are the same, although my 2800 outranged my 2700 slightly, but I think it was just unit to unit variation. It is a tiny bit larger than a 2700, but it still fits the same tripod mounts etc.


The 2800, on the right, is slightly larger than the 2700, but not so much that accessories are not interchangeable.

The 2800 also retains all the environmental instruments and ballistic computing capabilities onboard, just like the 2700b, so it’s every bit the stand alone device the 2700 is. The changes are all about the ‘com’….communication. Where Leica made significant changes is by adding Bluetooth connectivity with two-way communication, bringing new for Leica capabilities to the table, most significantly, in the ability to connect to a Kestrel wirelessly.

So, starting with the basics, there is now an app that allows you to connect the 2800 to your phone. Through this app, you can make firmware upgrades to the RF (opens the door to easy future upgrades and improvements), as well as create and store curves for various loads. Gone is the card slot that the 2700 used for storing a curve, as you can now build and store various curves in the app and upload the one you want to run at any given time onto the RF via phone. This also negates the need for using Leica’s curve builder on the web. That capability is now in the app. Useability wise, it’s a big improvement over the 2700.


The 2800, on the right, lacks the SD card slot that is present on the 2700, as it is no longer needed.

Once you have uploaded your curve, the 2800 operates just like the 2700, as the 2800 retains all the environmental instrumentation that the 2700 had. So temp, pressure, and angle are all considered to give you a solution out to 1000 yards. So as a standalone RF, it gives up nothing to the 2700b, but adds app connectivity, firmware upgrades, and a better way to build, store, and upload custom curves to your RF.
While the aforementioned changes are great and most welcome, the biggest capability improvement comes via its connectivity to a Kestrel. When in this mode, the RF will send range, angle and compass heading to your connected Kestrel. Yes, they added a compass to the 2800 so that DOF is automatically populated to the Kestrel. The Kestrel computes the solution, based on the curve selected in the Kestrel, and returns that full solution which displays in the 2800. The solution includes elevation adjustment as well as wind holds, including both the constant and gust holds that the Kestrel calculates if you have it set that way. And for those that like to shoot long, when sourcing the solution from the Kestrel, it will display your solution to as far as you can range on the 2800.

So the workflow here is pretty straightforward. For use without a Kestrel, just build your curve in the app, load it on the RF and run it like a 2700. All enviromentals are onboard just like on the 2700, so you are good to go to 1k.


Like the 2700, the 2800 easily ranged off this plate at 1120 yards, and was able to range a 12” white plate at over 1500 yards.
For use with a Kestrel, power up your Kestrel and leave it running. If you keep it in a pouch away from your body heat (like in a chest rig or whatever) temp drift due to sun or handling should not be a problem. And if you come from a hot truck to the cold, the Kestrel can quickly be cleared, then left running in the pouch so temp is always correctly updated. When you find your target, range it. The Kestrel’s solution will come up in your RF, and you are ready to shoot.

For many shooters, you won’t even need to handle the Kestrel once it is turned on, as DOF is set based on the RF compass reading, so Coriolis etc. will be correctly calculated without having to manually set DOF on the Kestrel. Of course, wind will need to be dealt with, but different shooters have different methods for wind estimation. Obviously If you want to take a wind reading, you’ll need to pull the Kestrel out. But some shooters just manually set a 5 mph full value and a 10 mph full value gust in the Kestrel, and then adjust the displayed hold accordingly when shooting.

Summary
Overall, the 2800.COM is a significant upgrade to the 2700b and looks like a winner. The workflow is faster due to the 2800’s connectivity , but it retains the 2700’s performance in terms of ranging and optics, while taking nothing away from the shooter in terms of features. With the 2800’s additional capabilities, Leica can now offer a fast and efficient workflow to those shooters who regularly shoot long, and in pairing with AB, they are leveraging a partnership with a trusted industry leader in ballistic solutions.

If I can get one of the production units, it would be very interesting indeed to compare performance, capabilities, and workflow to similarly connected devices like the 2400 BDX and the Vectronix X. On paper, they all have their areas of particular note, and I’d love to wring them out side by side to see what each one uniquely brings to the table. I’ve been running a long term test on the 2400BDX and it’s impressive (part 1 of the review will be up in a few days), and I’ve heard great things about the Vec X, so hopefully a comparison will happen later this year. But for sure, it’s a good time to be in the RF market, competition is spurring manufacturers to really up their game in terms of what they offer, and we consumers are reaping the benefits. MSRP for the 2800.COM is $1099, and its scheduled to start shipping this week.
 
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Nice upgrades for sure! Close to what we’ve been asking for. Thanks for sharing.

I’m guessing you can’t use AB curves without being connected to the kestrel? That is the only issue I have. With the 2400ABS you don’t need to carry a kestrel and still can manipulate wind and other variables without connecting to another device.

Fewer devices is mo betta when trying to get a quick solution on an animal without fiddling around with a bunch of crap. I feel like kestrel batteries might not do well on a week long backpack hunt in the cold.
 

Dioni A

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Have you noticed how quickly this unit reacts to temperature changes compared to the kestrel?
 
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catorres1

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Nice upgrades for sure! Close to what we’ve been asking for. Thanks for sharing.

I’m guessing you can’t use AB curves without being connected to the kestrel? That is the only issue I have. With the 2400ABS you don’t need to carry a kestrel and still can manipulate wind and other variables without connecting to another device.

Fewer devices is mo betta when trying to get a quick solution on an animal without fiddling around with a bunch of crap. I feel like kestrel batteries might not do well on a week long backpack hunt in the cold.

You are correct, when running standalone, it runs on Leica's own ballistic software. Only when connected to the Kestrel are you using AB stuff.

That is one area I would like to see changed. However, even using something like AB Ultralite, like what is on the BDX's, would probably add significant money to the cost, as AB would have a license fee.

As an alternative, Leica could update their own ballistic software to run on G7 models, that's the only problem with their ballistics as long as distances are held to 1k or under. With the reliance on G1, you have to tweak the BC and velocity on some bullets to match AB. I have been able to do that on every bullet so far to under .1 MOA out to 1k. For some bullets, it's easy, for others, it takes a bit.

I can tell you that the guys I know at Leica would love to see this happen, indeed, are eager to see this happen. It was on my list to Leica as well. With the ability to do easy upgrades, it could happen in the future quite easily, I hope it does. If it does, then I don't need to touch my Kestrel until distances really stretch when other forces and perhaps temp drift start to matter.
 
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catorres1

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Have you noticed how quickly this unit reacts to temperature changes compared to the kestrel?
None of the RFs do well with temp drift, upwards or downwards, consistently. Kestrel know the problem with drift, so they provided an exposed sensor for fast response and provided a clearing solution. So correct temp on a Kestrel is accessible near instantly by clearing the sensor, then you can lock it or whatever.

In talking to a product manager at an optics company, they are aware of this issue, which is one reason I think many are looking to Kestrel as a partner device. But I would love to see that problem be sorted directly on the RF. That would be very cool.
 

Dioni A

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None of the RFs do well with temp drift, upwards or downwards, consistently. Kestrel know the problem with drift, so they provided an exposed sensor for fast response and provided a clearing solution. So correct temp on a Kestrel is accessible near instantly by clearing the sensor, then you can lock it or whatever.

In talking to a product manager at an optics company, they are aware of this issue, which is one reason I think many are looking to Kestrel as a partner device. But I would love to see that problem be sorted directly on the RF. That would be very cool.
It's too bad that nobody uses a non-contact laser thermometer of some sort. Seems that it would be an easy solution.
 
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catorres1

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Thanks for sharing. I can not find the app?
I got it sent to me through a private connection. My guess is it's not up publicly yet, as the embargo went until this morning. Should be up shortly, I would think.
 

FURMAN

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Ya, no way I am ordering unless I can play with the app. It is going to have to be pretty good to get rid of my ABS 2400.
 
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catorres1

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It's too bad that nobody uses a non-contact laser thermometer of some sort. Seems that it would be an easy solution.
Yeah, I have thought about all kinds of solutions for this problem. It seems like it would be easy, but maybe not. I mean, the Foretrex uses a mini remote sensor. And even Kestrel's solution seems like it could be incorporated into an RF's body pretty easily. But I'm no engineer, so it's probably more complicated than it looks to me.
 
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catorres1

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Ya, no way I am ordering unless I can play with the app. It is going to have to be pretty good to get rid of my ABS 2400.
Well, I am sure it will be out shortly for you to have a look. But the app is not at all like the one for the 2400 ABS. The one for the ABS does a ton of stuff. The one for the 2800 does basically three things....firmware upgrades, RF configuration in terms of basic function, curve creation/storage/uploading. It's not intended for anything else.

There is no 'remote actuation' and all that stuff. In practice, it is much more like the app for the BDX RF's.
 

FURMAN

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The ABS is very nice but I do not use most functions. I would be interested in the Leica if you can enter exact ballistic data not just close. It seems as if that is fixed if I am reading correctly.
 
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catorres1

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The ABS is very nice but I do not use most functions. I would be interested in the Leica if you can enter exact ballistic data not just close. It seems as if that is fixed if I am reading correctly.
MMmmm, not sure if I understand what you mean by that, so I apologize if the following does not answer your question. If you mean you can build your curve to your exact numbers....ie enter bullet weight, BC, velocity, etc. yes, you can do that. That has been possible since the 2700b. I agree that choosing one of the presets is not a good solution for shots of any distance over probably 600. But since the 2700b, you have been able to build your curve on Leica's site, then upload it to the RF. Now, that's done directly in the app and uploaded via Bluetooth. The problem is that it only takes G1's. How much of a problem that is depends on your bullet.

Either way, even in the worst case scenario, there are two solutions.
1) Tweak your bc and velocity until the displayed drop chart in the app matches AB. I have been able to get to under .1 MOA agreement all the way to 1k, as long as Coriolis and ballistic jump are not a factor. And I have verified these drops to 1k.
2) Connect to a Kestrel and use AB directly.

I am hopeful that Leica updates their ballistics solver to use G7's in the future. That would be even better, but even so, the current solver can be trued with not too much trouble....and of course, for 1k plus, you have the Kestrel with AB.
 
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catorres1

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The ABS is very nice but I do not use most functions. I would be interested in the Leica if you can enter exact ballistic data not just close. It seems as if that is fixed if I am reading correctly.
I just realized I did not address all you say here.....yes, the ABS is super nice. It has some benefits that no other RF on the market can match. It has some things some people, not all, don't like too. I'll cover that more in a future review when comparing it to the 2400 BDX, but no doubt, it is a fine bit of kit.

Is there something you don't like about it?
 

FURMAN

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Nope, I love it. Just like new gear. The BDX does nothing for me. I will look into the Leica some more. I did not like the idea of putting a load onto an SD card with the 2700. I was confusing it with its predecessor though.
 
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Thank you for the informative review Chad!

Sorry for the delay on the App through the apple store, but it is now up and available to everyone!

Search "Leica Hunting" to download!
 

FURMAN

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My app will not take a BC in "create new curve". Not off to a good start. I have used every major ballistic calculator and they are all more user friendly.
 
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catorres1

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Not sure what the problem is, Catlin could probably sort it for you pretty quick if you PM her. Mine works, but I have an early version, have not DL'd what they announced today yet.
 
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Thank Chad! But I am a dude, Cat-lin haha;)

My app will not take a BC in "create new curve". Not off to a good start. I have used every major ballistic calculator and they are all more user friendly.

I'm not sure why you are having trouble putting in your BC.. I have walked hundreds through the app here at SHOT with no issue. You do need to enter it as 0.whatever, and be a G1(for the time being) profile just like our online calculator has always been.

I'm interested in what you don't find user friendly about it? We are always looking to improve on the consumers needs/wants, and I am most certainly available for questions or concerns.
 

FURMAN

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Thanks. The 0.xxx fixed it. I’ve never had to enter it like that before. It’s just different than most calculators. I could get used to it.


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