New Hunter, rifle upgrade, is 280AI the right choice?

[Ztm91]

I am new to both hunting and shooting a rifle. I bought and started shooting my first rifle this July. It is a savage ultralight in 6.5 creedmoor with an oryx chassis. The rifle is certainly more capable than I am, but also it weighs 12lbs. I am considering something a bit lighter, with a bit more authority. Being completely new to shooting a rifle, I also don’t want to go too light. Another complicating factor is I shoot left handed. At the top of the list currently is a Weatherby High Country in 280AI. From my research that seems like a good step up with a bit more energy, but with more manageable recoil in a lightweight platform vs the 7prc. The High Country is a little lighter than I would like, but I think I could get it to a manageable weight once bipod, scope, and arca rail are considered. I live in Idaho and will primarily be hunting deer and elk, but I would like to have something that is applicable for caribou, moose, etc as well.

From all the reading and podcasts I have listened to, the 280AI sounds like a good choice for me, just seems to be less readily available ammo choices in stores. The Boise Scheels has tons of variety for 7prc ammunition for example and one choice for 280AI. I would not be opposed to reloading in the future.

My current rifle certainly gets the job done. I just got back from my first hunt in Wyoming and was able to harvest a buck, drt first shot. Last week of October I’ll be going out with a deer, elk, and black bear tag in Idaho.

For a do it all rifle in the future, which would be more applicable for a new hunter/shooter? 280AI or 7prc? Also, the high country can be custom ordered with a carbon barrel as well. Any benefits there from an accuracy or weather resistance standpoint vs the steel barrel? The negative I see is the only barrel length available in carbon is 22” vs the 24” stock steel barrel. Research seems to indicate that the 24” barrel length is the sweet spot for peak performance with the 280AI (I will be shooting with a brake vs a suppressor)

 

[bigunit]

I built a lefty 280 Ai as a do all rifle. I really like it but handloads really make it pop. There are Ok factory offerings but I really like the sierra 165tgk as well as the 180 eldm and I dont believe those are available as factory ammo options. The round doesn't give up much to the 7mm rem mag and uses quite a bit less powder. Brass lasts well especially peterson. I went with a 22" carbon barrel and am definitely happy with the length. I get over 2900fps with the 168 barnes lrx and that is a hammer. It's also great with 140gr monos at 3100fps. It's the one on the right. It's just over 8lbs all in and recoil is negligible even with no brake.

 

[Deere_Man]

I would recommend a fast twist 7mm Rem Mag. It’s been out several decades and there is an abundance of factory ammunition available.

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[realunlucky]

Stay with the 6.5 creedmoor but prioritize a short barrel and a suppressor and it'll be a kill everything rifle. This setup will maximize recoil management while staying at a reasonable weight and still have amazing factory ammo selection. Thank me later

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

 

[Q_Sertorius]

No. A lighter, heavier recoiling rifle is not your solution.

How far do you plan to shoot? Pick a cartridge that keeps an ELDM/ELDX/Berger/TMK/other decent bullet above 1800 FPS at that range. That’s your do it all cartridge.

With a factory load and a 20” barrel, my Tikka can keep a 140-grain ELDM above 1800 FPS past 500 yards. That would be 150 yards past my longest shot at a deer (a DRT kill with a .25-06).

Unless you feel some psychological need to compensate for shortcomings elsewhere by using a bigger cartridge, there’s no reason to switch from a 6.5 CM. Just get the 6.5 CM (or 6mm CM or .243) in a lighter rifle, put a good scope on it, and go kill stuff.

If it’s legal for big game in your state, you should also consider the .223, 22 CM, or .22-250. With a good twist rate and a good bullet, you can be killing stuff further away than most hunters should even think of shooting.

 

[Rich M]

No. A lighter, heavier recoiling rifle is not your solution.

How far do you plan to shoot? Pick a cartridge that keeps an ELDM/ELDX/Berger/TMK/other decent bullet above 1800 FPS at that range. That’s your do it all cartridge.

With a factory load and a 20” barrel, my Tikka can keep a 140-grain ELDM above 1800 FPS past 500 yards. That would be 150 yards past my longest shot at a deer (a DRT kill with a .25-06).

Unless you feel some psychological need to compensate for shortcomings elsewhere by using a bigger cartridge, there’s no reason to switch from a 6.5 CM. Just get the 6.5 CM (or 6mm CM or .243) in a lighter rifle, put a good scope on it, and go kill stuff.

If it’s legal for big game in your state, you should also consider the .223, 22 CM, or .22-250. With a good twist rate and a good bullet, you can be killing stuff further away than most hunters should even think of shooting.

Yup once you develop a flinch, you own it.

Can get a 6-7# CM and be fine. No need to go fancy.

 

[texag10]

When I wanted to "upgrade" I screwed a 24" 6.5-284 barrel on my Tikka, replacing a 6.5 creedmoor barrel. This was stupid. Please do not follow me in my stupidity.

My next barrel will be a 6 creedmoor, and I'd take a strong look at 22 Creed or GT except CO is 6mm minimum and I don't want to risk a stupid ticket.

 

[DoubleDown]

No, it’s just glorified banquet cartridge.
a lot of cartridges on market ready available and better performance.

 

[HandgunHTR]

A couple of things that stood out to me from your post, OP. First, "authority" has nothing to do with killing animals. That is a term that someone made up to make people think that if they use a bigger or heavier, or whatever bullet/cartridge, it will somehow make up for piss poor shooting. Second, you don't need more "energy". You need to be able to hit what you aim at. EVERY TIME. That means practice, practice, and more practice. A heavy recoiling rifle shooting a cartridge that is hard to find or costs $60 per box doesn't lend itself to lots of practice.
As far as energy goes, spend some time reading various threads on this forum and you will see that the conventional wisdom related to "energy" doesn't really mean much. Keep a good bullet above 1800 fps and you will kill stuff just fine.
And for one final point, calculate the amount of energy that a .45, .50, or 54 caliber round ball has coming out of a flintlock and then remember that those were the weapons that extirpated the elk from the Eastern half of the US.

 

[Ztm91]

Thank you all for the input and responses already. I follow the hunt backcountry podcast and I know Steve and Mark have spent a lot of time talking about their success and other with smaller caliber rifles. And then there’s other podcasts I follow with the complete inverse perspective saying it’s unethical to shoot such small calibers at bigger game.

I’d never have thought I would ever be a hunter. I don’t really feel good about the killing part itself. I think that is my primary driver for considering other calibers. I just want to ensure a quick and ethical kill.

It was tough to shoot my first deer this year. But I did take some pride in processing it myself and getting meat in the freezer and researching recipes.

I certainly can acknowledge accuracy is the key factor in an ethical harvest. I likely will never be shooting what most people consider longer distances. Right now I shoot well to 350. But being my first year hunting and shooting I wouldn’t shoot over 250 at an animal. That’s where I’m 100% confident. I had a perfect broadside shot opportunity at the deer I harvested and all the time in the world at 363, but passed and was able to keep slowly crawling in and got to where the kill shot was 166 yards.

I suppose my thinking was if I can get skilled with something throwing a bit more mass more quickly that could be effective. But seems like the consensus here is also stay with the 6.5 and just keep practicing there.

 

[ColPenguin]

It is a savage ultralight in 6.5 creedmoor with an oryx chassis. The rifle is certainly more capable than I am, but also it weighs 12lbs.

Why? You took a lightweight sporter and doubled it's weight for what purpose? What are you trying to accomplish with this rifle configuration?

If you want a heavy PRS gun, build a heavy PRS gun. If you want to build a lightweight hunting gun, then the 4.5 lb chassis doesn't fit well as a solution to that problem. There are lightweight aftermarket carbon fiber or fiberglass stocks that would better fit the problem if you just want a hunting suited upgrade from the factory plastic.

My current rifle certainly gets the job done. I just got back from my first hunt in Wyoming and was able to harvest a buck, drt first shot. Last week of October I’ll be going out with a deer, elk, and black bear tag in Idaho.

Your 6.5 CM will do all the things you have listed.

Configure your existing rifle in a way that is conducive to hunting in the mountains.

 

[mlawrence125]

Stocky's NextGen UltraLite Carbon Fiber Hunter Savage 10/110 *Factory Seconds*

Stocky's Stocks Aftermarket Rifle Stock Supplier

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Drop your savage in something like this, cut the weight and use the rest of the money you were gonna spend on a new rifle on ammo and practice

 

[homers]

Unless you hand load, skip the 280AI. You could get a different rifle in 6.5CM, or look into 7mm-08, 308. All three fairly mild recoil with plenty of off the shelf ammo choices.

 

[LongWayAround]

Keep your 6.5 and put it in a different stock/chassis. Or get a a different 6.5.

The last thing a new shooter should look for is more recoil. There's a reason many on here have trended back down from heavier cartridges.

I shot my first few elk with a 7RM. The more recent ones with a 6.5CM have been just as dead.

Check out the 6mm and 6.5mm kill threads if you have any doubts.

 

[hereinaz]

Get another 6.5 creed, or smaller.

 

[Big_wals]

I would drop your current 6.5 in a lighter chassis or stock, and buy a 223. Even if you aren’t comfortable hunting with a 22 cal, there is no replacement for trigger time, and a 223 is the cheapest and most pleasant way to shoot a lot other than a rimfire.

Also buy a suppressor. Or two.

 

[Ztm91]

Why? You took a lightweight sporter and doubled it's weight for what purpose? What are you trying to accomplish with this rifle configuration?

If you want a heavy PRS gun, build a heavy PRS gun. If you want to build a lightweight hunting gun, then the 4.5 lb chassis doesn't fit well as a solution to that problem. There are lightweight aftermarket carbon fiber or fiberglass stocks that would better fit the problem if you just want a hunting suited upgrade from the factory plastic.


Your 6.5 CM will do all the things you have listed.

Configure your existing rifle in a way that is conducive to hunting in the mountains

Why? You took a lightweight sporter and doubled it's weight for what purpose? What are you trying to accomplish with this rifle configuration?

If you want a heavy PRS gun, build a heavy PRS gun. If you want to build a lightweight hunting gun, then the 4.5 lb chassis doesn't fit well as a solution to that problem. There are lightweight aftermarket carbon fiber or fiberglass stocks that would better fit the problem if you just want a hunting suited upgrade from the factory plastic.


Your 6.5 CM will do all the things you have listed.

Configure your existing rifle in a way that is conducive to hunting in the mountains.

Yeah there were some poor choices made there with zero experience hunting or shooting. I like the more vertical grips, and being close to blm and foothills I get out and practice prone, off tripods on hillsides, off packs, uphill, downhill etc so the full length arca was nice for that. But you are correct I could find a new stock and drop a lot of weight. The left hand thing does narrow it a bit but I’m sure there’s far better options from a practicality standpoints.

 

[ColPenguin]

Yeah there were some poor choices made there with zero experience hunting or shooting.

Making mistakes is part of the learning process. I am not trying to pick on you, as I have made same mistakes. I walked around the woods with an MDT Field stock before it clicked that it was not suited for the task.

You have a perfectly suitable cartridge to start with. As others have said, it makes more sense to get something lighter recoiling and cheaper to shoot, like a .223 bolt gun, than "upgrade" to a heavier recoiling and more expensive per round cartridge. That way, you'll get more trigger time to work on marksmanship and field shooting fundamentals.

 

[Deere_Man]

Making mistakes is part of the learning process. I am not trying to pick on you, as I have made same mistakes. I walked around the woods with an MDT Field stock before it clicked that it was not suited for the task.

You have a perfectly suitable cartridge to start with. As others have said, it makes more sense to get something lighter recoiling and cheaper to shoot, like a .223 bolt gun, than "upgrade" to a heavier recoiling and more expensive per round cartridge. That way, you'll get more trigger time to work on marksmanship and field shooting fundamentals.

It’s a fairly easy fix to just slap the old stock back on.

 

[Turkeytider]

Thank you all for the input and responses already. I follow the hunt backcountry podcast and I know Steve and Mark have spent a lot of time talking about their success and other with smaller caliber rifles. And then there’s other podcasts I follow with the complete inverse perspective saying it’s unethical to shoot such small calibers at bigger game.

I’d never have thought I would ever be a hunter. I don’t really feel good about the killing part itself. I think that is my primary driver for considering other calibers. I just want to ensure a quick and ethical kill.

It was tough to shoot my first deer this year. But I did take some pride in processing it myself and getting meat in the freezer and researching recipes.

I certainly can acknowledge accuracy is the key factor in an ethical harvest. I likely will never be shooting what most people consider longer distances. Right now I shoot well to 350. But being my first year hunting and shooting I wouldn’t shoot over 250 at an animal. That’s where I’m 100% confident. I had a perfect broadside shot opportunity at the deer I harvested and all the time in the world at 363, but passed and was able to keep slowly crawling in and got to where the kill shot was 166 yards.

I suppose my thinking was if I can get skilled with something throwing a bit more mass more quickly that could be effective. But seems like the consensus here is also stay with the 6.5 and just keep practicing there.

Never take it lightly, the taking of a life. My personal goal is to do everything I can to make sure that an animal doesn’t know what hit it if I can. I owe him that respect.