New Hornady ELD-X

[sendero72]

Do we have any members testing the new Hornady 7mm 175gr ELD-X Amax? This is Hornady's new long range hunting bullet.

 

[doverpack12]

I am thinking about backordering some to try out. Midway shows an approximate backorder arrival to them of 11/28/15.

 

[Roy68]

This is Hornady's video on the ELD-X.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3CKco6rqc&feature=youtu.be

Edit: no need to watch past about 11:00 of the video.

 

[joelbiltz]

Gunwerks is building me a new rifle now in 300 RUM going to have them load the 212 up in it for me. Aaron Davidson seems real excited about them.

 

[Roy68]

Joelbiltz,

Did he give any indication as to what his personal excitements were?

 

[gethuntin]

I really like the looks of them and they seem to fill the gap between a bonded hunting bullet and target bullet. And they are reasonably priced

 

[mtnkid85]

Ive always liked Hornadies bullets, but I don't hunt with any of them. I am excited to try these out.

 

[Scot E]

The concept provides what my perfect bullet would be. Interested to see how these test out on live game. With the amount of testing that they did I am pretty excited. Amax accuracy and easy of loading and not picky for finding accuracy along with controlled but large expansion. LIKE IT!

Good reads
http://www.shotgunnews.com/news/hornady-heat-shield-more-than-just-hype/

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/resources/ELD-X_ELD-Match_Technical_Details.pdf

 

[KMD]

If they kill like an Amax does, they should be decent...

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I back-ordered the 7mm in the 175gr, stated BC of .660 if it's a true bc it's on par with a 180 Berger

BGG

 

[Scot E]

They are all on par with Bergers now especially since berger changed many of their BC's for the worse. Except for the hybrids and classic hunters the amax's are much easier to get to shoot well. Seems like a winner to me.

 

[Roy68]

I watched the video several times and had a lot of questions. I am far from an expert on bullets or long range shooting. I'm no fool though and know what I don't know. I called a friend of mine that is an engineer for Swift Bullet Company, and we had a long discussion. At no time did he bad mouth Hornady, Nosler, Berger, or the like. He simply answered my questions in a pragmatic an analytical way. My take away is that the video is purely marketing hype for the uniformed.

Some of the takeaways from my conversation:
* Doppler radar measures velocity. Not drag or temperature or direction of travel.
* Pulse-Doppler can depict direction and velocity (this is what meteorologist use).
* The graph used in the video that depicted BC across Yardage with a velocity and tip temp was not likely recorded live. Instead that information was extrapolated from a SolidWorks Simulation program or similar. I've used such programs and if you put bad info in you will get bad info out.
* I seriously doubt that Hornady is using a super plastic that can withstand surface temps of almost 800F. If such a plastic exists it would likely be cost prohibitive to use in bullet manufacturing.
* I believe that Hornady is using a newer plastic with a cool iridescent quality. If it is easier to consistently mold to their profile(s) they will undoubtedly have lessened drag and raised their BC.
* The tips of the Scirroco bullets have a melting temp, and I was told that temp isn't 1/2 of Hornady's graph depiction of almost 800F

I believe that Hornady makes quality bullets. I use their accubonds in my 300wm, and I don't see myself changing any time soon. I do not think the Hornady ELD-X is an earth shattering bullet that is going to put the rest out of business. I do think they've tweaked their design and now they need to market it to "joe public". My $.02

 

[Scot E]

If velocity drops unexpectedly then you would have to look at why. BC degradation would be at the top of the list. Doppler would work well for this.

Doppler radar is being used in a numbers of places to get spot on BC's. Not just Hornady. The system works.

Start looking around for other threads on this. There are a lot of guys that have experienced issues with Amax bullets at high velocity over the years. Drop in BC at range, tumbling bullets that shouldn't be. I have even seen bullets found that ended up tumbling and the tip was intact. The tip was almost nonexistent.

Marketing hype is one thing. Out right lying is another. I don't believe Hornady is making this up. I know for a fact that they were about to release their new bullet line 2 years ago. Then it all stopped. They postponed it just for some additional hype? I don't buy it.

Not saying this is going to be the best bullet ever but it does explain a lot including why other bullet manufacturers with tipped bullets have had big BC issues when they get out to the long range distances.

BTW, Accubonds are made by Nosler not Hornady.

 

[Roy68]

My bad on the accubonds, interbonds, and Barry Bonds. I run the Hornady interbonds in the winny and accubonds in my 25-06. I mixed them up.

I can't attest to why they didn't release their bullet 2 years ago. I would agree with you that it wasn't just to add hype. However their video has the marketing director telling us why the ELD is so great. That kind of stuck out to me.

How does Doppler provide a spot on BC? BC is based off of calculation accounting for several variables. Yes velocity drop off would be a big clue to a change but temperature, wind, humidity, dew point will all affect the calculated BC. Due to all those variables a "spot" BC wouldnt just be a snapshot at that point in time?

I'm not familiar with all the issues regarding the Amax but if the ELD solves the problems of the Amax you reference then that is likely a good thing. If that's the case then Hornady solved a problem but they didn't all of a sudden revolutionize the long range bullet world did they?

 

[KMD]

Here's what a melted tip looks like on a 162Amax after hitting a deer ~ 700yds...

One of the only few I actually recovered. The others seemingly melted right on thru the offside & kept on melting into the dirt...

I'll keep on melting Amaxs!!!

 

[doverpack12]

What really interests me is when you read their PDF by Dave Emary. Now I know these were not independent tests, but the wound cavities shown at two velocities for the ELD-X, Berger Hunting VLD, and Nosler ABLR that is where I believe this bullet really separates itself. If the ELD-X truly is more reliable in terms of consistent expansion across the entire velocity spectrum that is what will set it apart from other bullets in this relative class. To me having the absolute highest BC is not the end goal, consistent performance on game is the goal. Call it marketing, but if Gunwerks (Aaron Davidson) asked for and are willing to move to this bullet over bergers to obtain better on game performance at extended range I think that says something. The true test will come when everyone gets their hands on the bullets and we can get real world performance from everyday hunters and shooters.

 

[Scot E]

My bad on the accubonds, interbonds, and Barry Bonds. I run the Hornady interbonds in the winny and accubonds in my 25-06. I mixed them up.

I can't attest to why they didn't release their bullet 2 years ago. I would agree with you that it wasn't just to add hype. However their video has the marketing director telling us why the ELD is so great. That kind of stuck out to me.

How does Doppler provide a spot on BC? BC is based off of calculation accounting for several variables. Yes velocity drop off would be a big clue to a change but temperature, wind, humidity, dew point will all affect the calculated BC. Due to all those variables a "spot" BC wouldnt just be a snapshot at that point in time?

I'm not familiar with all the issues regarding the Amax but if the ELD solves the problems of the Amax you reference then that is likely a good thing. If that's the case then Hornady solved a problem but they didn't all of a sudden revolutionize the long range bullet world did they?

Hope you didn't think I was busting your chops. Not the case. Just giving you my take.

I hear what you're saying. I guess the devil is in the details.

This is specifically my thinking on the subject.

1. I like tipped bullets. They are more consistent than hollow points and more importantly they ensure consistent expansion which is a a real problem with tightly tipped bullets created for high BC's. 1 of the 2 biggest complaints with performance on game from hollow point style bullets is no expansion, no damage. A pencil through, zero damage mess. A tipped bullet fixes this.
2. I love Amax's for hunting. I've been one of the guys that has used them for years. They are one of the best bullets I know of for ensuring good expansion at long range. They perform very, very well but you have to know their limitations, and there are a few. Too close and you are in trouble, too fast at medium range and your are in trouble, and you need to pick your bullet weight very carefully for your intended game otherwise you will have penetration issues. Also, there has been inconsistencies with them that up till now guys haven't been able to explain. BC degradation is one of them and is why many guys I know used stepped BC's to compensate for this. Also, blowing up in flight from time to time has been an issue. This is mostly from high velocity magnum loads at max pressures in hot conditions but it has been and is an issue. Their new jackets and tips theoretically fix these issues.
3. I love the interlock bullets. They are without a doubt the most consistently deadly bullets I have ever shot. I have 100% confidence in them to expand and put down game. I have personally never seen within my hunting group of guys an interlock that has failed to do its job. The only problem is that they have lousy BC's for LR stuff. So this combination of tipped, high BC, with an interlock back end is very intriguing to me. Plus it fixes the other common complaint of hollow point hunting bullets which is blowing up too soon, even on the entry side hide or bone, and having no terminal effect on the vital cavity. Having the back-end be interlocked, again, theoretically eliminates this issue.
4. I have read enough on the Doppler testing that they used to feel very good about their BC's being dead on. As an example, they tested other bullet manufacturers BC's and came up with nearly exactly the numbers that guys are seeing in the field. This includes Berger. Their tested BC's matched the drop in BC ratings that Berger recently came out with. Also, others have found the Doppler system to exactly match what their in the field results are.
5. I really like Hornady's interbond and STS bullets but they are not perfect for me. They both have low BC's. The STS bullets have had their issues as have the interbonds. No expansion, too much expansion etc. Again, the proof is in the put'in, I get that but this new bullet has the potential to do everything I want in a hunting bullet.
6. I really appreciate a company that seems bent toward pricing products to what they cost vs how revolutionary they think they are. I think their price point will be much appreciated by guys that shoot a lot of rounds each month.

A couple take away's. I am not bashing Berger or any other company. I have a number of loads with Bergers that work well. I do not understand however those that say that their VLD bullets aren't harder to get to shoot than say elite, hybrid or classic versions. It takes way more tinkering with seating depth on every gun I have ever used. And some chambers just won't shoot them as well as they are capable of. The hybrids are almost a plug and play concept compared to the VLD's. What I am saying is that IF what they say comes to fruition they will have what I consider to be a perfectly created hunting bullet based on what I like in a bullet and how I expect it to perform. Up until now I can't say any other bullet has had this potential for me.

Also, I'll try to find some articles on the Doppler systems being used. There are a couple out already for consumer purchase albeit they don't have the features that the bigger units have. LabRadar is one of them.

My 2 cents written with a lot of words!

 

[Scot E]

I am mainly talking about their 30 cal BC. Thought they would do better with the 220.

I keep hearing how Bergers are hard to get to shoot?? This has not been the case for me.

The IB is a great bullet, really wish they could get a bigger 30 cal bullet with a .7 BC.

That video was all HYPE!! Thought they were coming out with a heat seeking bullet for a minute

Agree about the 30's. They always seem to be the hardest to get good BC with. I think the 215 Berger will be hard to match for 30 Cal lovers. Very, very little bad said about them.

This article is a good read. Actually, can I post links to other forum sites here? Not sure on the rules.

 

[Scot E]

Here's what a melted tip looks like on a 162Amax after hitting a deer ~ 700yds...

One of the only few I actually recovered. The others seemingly melted right on thru the offside & kept on melting into the dirt...

I'll keep on melting Amaxs!!!

Amax's and deer are a match made in heaven!

 

[Ryan Avery]

This article is a good read. Actually, can I post links to other forum sites here? Not sure on the rules.

Go ahead Scot. Learning is the name of the game here.