New Elk Gun

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Going on first elk hunt this fall, and I spent the better part of a year researching multiple different caliber choices, ballistics, energy, testimonials, etc... For me it finally came down very simply to "adequate" vs. "ideal" as my #1 priority, and then I also considered multi-species use, ammo availability, and versatility.

Can a 6.5CR kill elk? Absolutely. However, a whole bunch of other cartrides, not the least of which are the venerable and proven .25-06, .270, .308, and .30-06, have been killing deer, antelope, elk, moose, etc... for a heck of a long time. I agree with several veteran gun writers that there are way too many calibers out today that were designed for marketing hype and to sell ammo vs. filling a gap or solving a legitimate problem.

Because it was already mentioned on here, the .300 win mag is a great example. Out to normal hunting ranges (400 yards or less) on elk or moose it is a little faster and hits a little harder than a .30-06. However, the couple hundred FPS and foot pounds of energy come with significantly more muzzle blast and recoil all things being equal, and the elk probably isn't going to know the difference. If you're not a handloader, the ammo is also more expensive and less available than the .30-06. Now, if you are interested in long range shooting and hunting, and will regularly shoot more than 400 yards, the .300 is a better choice. It is ceritifed as the military's enhance sniper round well beyond 1,000 yards.

I elected to go with a .308 for my rifle build for the following reasons:
-With 180 gr Federal TBT, it is ballistically similar with the .30-06 out to 300 yards or so, and still delivers plenty of energy out to 400 on elk with proper placement and angle
- With smaller bullets it is lethal on deer, antelope, etc. at even greater ranges as well as predators if you don't mind some pelt damage
- In normal times (not today) it is one of the most affordable and available rounds in the world
- It can be used in every major firearms platform including MSR (AR-10)
- It does everything with minimal recoil, increasing the probability of hits in an already inherently accurate catridge. This is one of the greatest selling points of the 6.5CR, and if manufacturers ever come out with heavier bullets, I may take a second look.

I'm sure you will be happy with the 6.5CR as long as you are realistic about distance and placement like everybody else already said. Good luck!

 

[b0nes]

I don’t know who said it on here but someone put it perfectly.

Is the 6.5 creed a good elk caliber? Yes. Is it a good long range caliber? Yes. Is it a good long range elk caliber? NO!

Sorry to whoever said it first.

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

I don’t know who said it on here but someone put it perfectly.

Is the 6.5 creed a good elk caliber? Yes. Is it a good long range caliber? Yes. Is it a good long range elk caliber? NO!

Sorry to whoever said it first.

What's your definition of long range? Looking at ballistics charts on Nosler's website, I don't see one reason a 6.5 CM couldn't put elk down humanely at 400 yards. Shot placement is key, we all know that.

400 yards is more then most shooters even attempt, so long range is a term that could mean very different things from one hunter to another.

If the guy mounting the scope says it wont kill elk, well we all know that's silly. You don't need a cannon to kill elk, and ya don't need a nascar to drive to work.

Never shot a 6.5 CM, I'm basing that off of Nosler's ballistics online. So take that with a grain of salt I suppose.

 

[Sgtusmc14]

322 yards with a 143 gr eldx. Punched the lungs and out the other side. Would have been comfortable out to 450 with it.

 

[butcherboy]

Why not a 264 mag? Much better than the 6.5. If you want a rifle for yourself then you can’t go wrong with a 300 wsm. Put a muzzle break on it though! I prefer my 270 wsm for all rifle hunting. There is always a reason to buy another rifle.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

322 yards with a 143 gr eldx. Punched the lungs and out the other side. Would have been comfortable out to 450 with it.

View attachment 276165

Well done! If there were 160 grain factory loads for the 6.5, I would take a closer look. Some outfitters that have had bad experiences with hunters shooting small bullets have implemented minimums. The outfit we are using this fall has a 160 gr minimum regardless of caliber.

 

[Mosby]

"Just Cos You Can Don't Mean You Should"

 

[srichter]

My buddy shot a bull in NM with a 6.5 Creed

 

[CAElkhunter]

I get the recoil reasons for liking a 6.5 but then you have to live with the reality that ethically you should not shoot a Bull Elk at 500-600 yds with that gun. It doesn't have the recommended energy at that distance to
kill a Bull.

 

[Mosby]

The Army did a review of different calibers at one point and I pulled a chart off an article discussing it. It gives a nice comparison of some popular calibers. 1500 ft lbs of energy is considered by many to be the minimum for elk and I am not big on minimums. I wouldn't shoot an elk past 250 yds with a 6.5 personally but I limit my shots with my 300 WM too.

 

[WCB]

6.5 will kill an elk just fine at normal elk killing distances (most are killed 200 yards and under)...from my experience single digit percentages are killed over 400 yards.

Get a well constructed bullet that shoots well in your gun and take quality shots it will be a good elk gun for you.

Now would it be my first choice at an elk gun no.....but my 7rem mag isn't a lot of guys first pick either.

 

[Timberline001]

Thanks man! Bought the rifle mainly for my son to hunt with and figured if it was a round that would cover mule deer, antelope, elk then I might as well get it.

Went there wanting a tikka and the sales man talked me into a savage that is on the heavier side so was having all around buyers remorse but too late to turn back now


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Not only did he tell you that a 6.5 won’t kill and elk but also talked you from a tikka to a savage? Sometimes I wish the gun counter was a better paying job so there wasn’t mindless people behind them lol. But in their defense I used to work behind one

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I get the recoil reasons for liking a 6.5 but then you have to live with the reality that ethically you should not shoot a Bull Elk at 500-600 yds with that gun. It doesn't have the recommended energy at that distance to
kill a Bull.

Discussing the ethics of shooting animal x at z yards can open a big can of worms. That is not my goal, and here is my take and please do not take offense.

I started hunting whitetails in 1997 with an old browning compound bow. I immediately fell in love with all aspects of bowhunting and the up close and personal nature of the hunt. I started shotgunning for them in Iowa shortly after, and in those days, slug selection was such that your average hunter was comforatable between 50-100 yards maximum. Inline muzzloaders changed the game in the early 2000s, and range was increased to approx. 150. Fast forward to now, and an average slug hunter can confidently shoot a scoped gun out to 150 or a little farther and muzzleloaders are good to 300 in the premium models.

This arms race of sorts exists in the centerfire rifle category as well. Manufacturers keep producing rounds focused on extending cartridges' (not hunters') thoeretical effective range. However, I would argue the average hunter lacks the time and focus to consistently achieve proficiency at these theoretical ranges. Thus, while a cartridge may be capable of effectively killing an animal at long range, if the hunter cannot confidently and accurately take those kinds of shots, it is not an ethical practice for them to do so just because of what it says on a box of ammo.
My goal is to always cut the distance between me an my target as much as possible. To do so requires a combination of skill, cunning, woodsmanship, experience, and luck. In other words, it requires you to hunt, and isn't the thrill of the chase what its all about? For me it is, and for this reason as well as the fact that any big game animal looks small to my aging eyes at ranges beyond 200 yards, I would never endeavor to shoot at animals beyond 300-350 yards.

 

[CAElkhunter]

I agree with your point which is why I am not a big fan of the 6.5. Too many people buy it and use it wrong.
I have harvested many Elk over 400 yds but always my goal is to get within 300 yds. I practice shooting in the off season and am very confident at long range but still like a shot inside 300 yds every time.

 

[woods89]

Have a look in the "223 for deer, bear, elk, and moose" thread. I think it will put your mind at ease.

I'd concern myself with shooting it a lot in field positions and picking a good bullet.

I'd take advice on where to sign and where to swipe my credit card from gun counter guys, but that's about it. They seem to give a lot of bad advice.

 

[flatfoot]

Ok. I'll be the bad guy. I shot a 5x5 with 6.5 creedmoor/143 eld x broadside at 525 yards. He went down within 15 feet. My friend shot another elk with the same rifle at 475 yards. That 5x5 went 5 feet. Both quite dead and now mounted. The third guy in our group took a quick shot at an elk with a 28 nosler he just bought and went home empty handed. It's all about placement and comfort with the ranges you are talking about and an honest assessment of your abilities.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Ok. I'll be the bad guy. I shot a 5x5 with 6.5 creedmoor/143 eld x broadside at 525 yards. He went down within 15 feet. My friend shot another elk with the same rifle at 475 yards. That 5x5 went 5 feet. Both quite dead and now mounted. The third guy in our group took a quick shot at an elk with a 28 nosler he just bought and went home empty handed. It's all about placement and comfort with the ranges you are talking about and an honest assessment of your abilities.

That is some excellent marksmanship. Congrats!

 

[Sgtusmc14]

I don’t understand what people don’t get about shot placement. If I shoot a 6.5 crd or a 300 Rum it doesn’t matter if I smack them in the guts. Ya the rum will make more trauma and a bigger exit but a bad shot is a bad shot. Last year I hit mine with a 6.5 creed and it dropped. My buddies did a sync shot at 445 (.280 rem) and 480 (6.5 PRC) and they both dropped. Fourth guy in our party hit one in the front leg with a 300 wsm (at less than 150 yards) and I tracked her for at least a 1/4 mile before I lost blood in the timber. It’s all about shot placement. Three of us are avid shooters and shoot 1000s of rounds a year. The fourth guy was a box of shells last 10 years type.

 

[Tbonespop]

It's fine for elk out to <400 yards. generally speaking General rules of thumb are 1500 lbs minimum energy and 2100 FPS velocity for proper bullet expansion. I'd look to stay above those "minimums". So it will get the job done to a certain distance. I just wouldn't go too far with it though. Going farther out is just a risk. As many others have said, shot placement is key along with bullet choice. Caliber and ballistics are the last of the 3 critical factors with taking an animal. 1) Shot placement, 2) Bullet quality 3) Caliber/ballistics.

I prefer using my .308 because I like a bigger cross section area bullet in terms of damage. Velocity, bullet energy, etc is fine on the 308 out to 400 yards with a 168 grain Nosler E Tip. 6.5 and 308 are very similar ballistics. Me personally, if I can't cut the distance between me and the animal inside of 400 yards, then I have not done my part well enough as a hunter. That's just my own personal opinion. I'm also an archery hunter though and enjoy the chase every bit as much as dropping the hammer, probably more so.

I'm not a fan of bigger caliber guns personally. Bigger caliber rifles have more recoil, which causes 2 things: less willingness to shoot/practice and risk of flinching due to recoil. Both of those reduce accuracy. Having a rifle the shooter enjoys shooting means they will practice more and more practice results in being a better shot, which results in better shot placement when the time comes to take the animal.

Go shoot the 6.5 and enjoy it. If you need an excuse to get another rifle, then that's your call I'll support you in that decision.

 

[Idaho4x4Bronco]

General rules of thumb are 1500 lbs minimum energy and 2100 FPS velocity for proper bullet expansion.

Seems conservative? Who came up with these numbers? Honest question.

My personal experience would lead me to believe that's not the minimum needed.