New Binoculars, spotting scope, or both...

[Scoutfan]

I never got a chance to look through the new compact kowa. Everyone I talked to that compared both said the glass was equal. Since the dual focus is a high priority for you I would say Kowa. I can be hard on equipment so I wanted the rubber coating on the atc without the weight penalty of adding a cover and I am more familiar with Swaroski. Just wish they would make a scope that I could trust!
Even when spending top dollar you still have to make compromises and pick which features mean the most to you.

 

[iflyskyhigh]

I can gather a few basic pieces and help walk you through the differences when actually in the glass if it’s you and me.

If we plan a Rokslide shoot, we can really get some stuff to test with others I know are here.

No one I know first hand has the NL Pures, but was out with a guide who had the 12s. Looking through the 12s was enough to convince me I would if I had the money.

I always wish I had larger field of view with the 15s, especially inside 500 yards. That’s what gets me most. It’s also why some prefer the 12 EL. To have the same magnification with bigger field of view is a big part of why the NL Pures are worth the step up. It’s more than just better glass.

You only catch deer and such when they are in the visible parts of the hill, so field of view and more peripheral vision to catch movement is a big improvement.

Is this something that happens often?

I'm a member at Phoenix Rod and Gun. Trying to get over the flu, but was planning on maybe running down there Friday to do a little load development.

Okay so far what I've gathered is, NL Pures are amazing. Seems like what you're saying is the NL Pure 14X have almost the magnification of the SLC 15X, but with the FOV of the 10X EL's?

 

[Scoutfan]

Don't forget the downside of the 14x is being way more difficult to use without a tripod than 10x or 12x. 10x is best for non tripod use. For me 12x seemed like the best for my one and done use.
YMMV

 

[iflyskyhigh]

Is this something that happens often?

I'm a member at Phoenix Rod and Gun. Trying to get over the flu, but was planning on maybe running down there Friday to do a little load development.

Okay so far what I've gathered is, NL Pures are amazing. Seems like what you're saying is the NL Pure 14X have almost the magnification of the SLC 15X, but with the FOV of the 10X EL's?

Was just looking at the Swarovski website and comparing everything.

I know is anecdotal as seeing they in person is the only true test, but at least on paper the specs for the 12x42 NL’s kind a look like a sweet spot? Good eye relief. Good FOV.

14x52’s look to be quite a but tighter. Be interested to see how that translates in the real world

 

[iflyskyhigh]

Don't forget the downside of the 14x is being way more difficult to use without a tripod than 10x or 12x. 10x is best for non tripod use. For me 12x seemed like the best for my one and done use.
YMMV

But even the 12x42’s are probably gonna be a little much without a tripod thought correct?

 

[hereinaz]

It’s personal preference between the 12 and 14/15, and can depend on the type of hunting you will do.

I ran 12x Leica Ultravid, comparable to the EL for a couple seasons.

I only sold them when Sig first released the 10x RF binos. I was OK with them as my single solution. If the 12 EL Range LRF and ballistics were better, I would very likely switch to that and carry the Kowa 554.

With the 10x32 LRF and 15s I was less likely to carry a spotter too.

If I recall correctly, actual magnification on the Pures is like 14.6 or something.

The guide was finding the same game I was with his 12s, but he said he only bought them because the 14s weren’t out yet. He had 15s in his pack, but didn’t pull them out. He used an 85 spotter with his binos, on the same ARCA bar that was co-witnessed so he could switch back and forth looking.

 

[Scoutfan]

Yes but still usable. It's just one of those things that you have to try for yourself and really see what best suits your personal needs

 

[hereinaz]

But even the 12x42’s are probably gonna be a little much without a tripod thought correct?

It’s the magnification of the shake. Lighter helps a little. It’s one of those things.

Nothing is perfect, but it’s doable handheld.

 

[hereinaz]

Yes but still usable. It's just one of those things that you have to try for yourself and really see what best suits your personal needs

This is the truth… some days I can’t even decide.

 

[Scoutfan]

If I could afford to by the best one of each then I would still have to decide which two to carry with me. Then after hours of deciding I would probably be half way into a hunt and wish I would have chosen something different.

 

[hereinaz]

If I could afford to by the best one of each then I would still have to decide which two to carry with me. Then after hours of deciding I would probably be half way into a hunt and wish I would have chosen something different.

Exactly!

 

[hereinaz]

Is this something that happens often?

I'm a member at Phoenix Rod and Gun. Trying to get over the flu, but was planning on maybe running down there Friday to do a little load development.

Okay so far what I've gathered is, NL Pures are amazing. Seems like what you're saying is the NL Pure 14X have almost the magnification of the SLC 15X, but with the FOV of the 10X EL's?

Hard to get a whole bunch together, so not really. But, we can try. I did an invite on coueswhitetail and we got a pretty good showing.

There is a thread where some of us have been plotting one. I will tag you.

After SHOT, I will be open and hoping to do some regular shooting and meet new folks before it gets 1000 degrees.

 

[iflyskyhigh]

If I could afford to by the best one of each then I would still have to decide which two to carry with me. Then after hours of deciding I would probably be half way into a hunt and wish I would have chosen something different.

Thomas said “There are no solutions. Only compromises.” Or something to that effect.

 

[iflyskyhigh]

It’s personal preference between the 12 and 14/15, and can depend on the type of hunting you will do.

I ran 12x Leica Ultravid, comparable to the EL for a couple seasons.

I only sold them when Sig first released the 10x RF binos. I was OK with them as my single solution. If the 12 EL Range LRF and ballistics were better, I would very likely switch to that and carry the Kowa 554.

With the 10x32 LRF and 15s I was less likely to carry a spotter too.

If I recall correctly, actual magnification on the Pures is like 14.6 or something.

The guide was finding the same game I was with his 12s, but he said he only bought them because the 14s weren’t out yet. He had 15s in his pack, but didn’t pull them out. He used an 85 spotter with his binos, on the same ARCA bar that was co-witnessed so he could switch back and forth looking.

I guess I can always hang onto my Nikon Monarch 10X42 for the quick stuff. They are decent enough glass for that I world think?

I’m really interested in looking through the 12X and 14X

I started typing this with another thought and lost it…standby…

 

[hereinaz]

I would recommend you keep the Nikon 10x for now. My Sigs aren't the greatest glass, but they are "good enough" because of the other features. The only reason to change right now would be if you wanted to go with a 10x LRF. And, it can be a good idea to have a backup/loaner pair.

Eventually, you will probably want to upgrade all your glass after using good glass in the 12/14, but don't jump on it just yet. If you go with the 12x, you may find they ride on your chest. I have ruined many friends after they look through my rifle scope and start them down the long range build rabbit hole.

Every time I use my Sigs, I really wish the glass was better, but that's a compromise I know I am making because I prioritize what else it gives me. I have buddies who picked up the LRF binos after seeing how I use mine, but then they can't stop using their Swaro and Leica 10x.

But, if you have the money and don't mind the buying and selling, you can pick up a pair to use for a bit, then sell them if they don't fit into your current "system." I have bought and sold lots of stuff that way. I have owned 4 Kowa 554/3 over the years, depending on the hunt of the year. I really like them, but they always sit enough that I pull the money out of them for some other ADHD squirrel... I am trying to do that less.

 

[iflyskyhigh]

I would recommend you keep the Nikon 10x for now. My Sigs aren't the greatest glass, but they are "good enough" because of the other features. The only reason to change right now would be if you wanted to go with a 10x LRF. And, it can be a good idea to have a backup/loaner pair.

Eventually, you will probably want to upgrade all your glass after using good glass in the 12/14, but don't jump on it just yet. If you go with the 12x, you may find they ride on your chest. I have ruined many friends after they look through my rifle scope and start them down the long range build rabbit hole.

Every time I use my Sigs, I really wish the glass was better, but that's a compromise I know I am making because I prioritize what else it gives me. I have buddies who picked up the LRF binos after seeing how I use mine, but then they can't stop using their Swaro and Leica 10x.

But, if you have the money and don't mind the buying and selling, you can pick up a pair to use for a bit, then sell them if they don't fit into your current "system." I have bought and sold lots of stuff that way. I have owned 4 Kowa 554/3 over the years, depending on the hunt of the year. I really like them, but they always sit enough that I pull the money out of them for some other ADHD squirrel... I am trying to do that less.

Wilco.

I understand the rabbit hole. It's why I'm here.

Most of my rifles now wear Nightforce and it' my rifle optic of choice. My budget optics at this point are Burris XTR Pros. I have 2 of those and they are relegated to my PCP air rifle and 22RL.

All my long range rifles at this point are PRS style guns and completely custom builds. My buddy Chuck is probably the best custom rifle builder that no one knows about.

I have a Remington 700 LA in 30-06 that I have been hunting with since day one. We're probably gonna build it into a "custom" hunting rifle of some form or another. That one still has my original Nikon Monarch 4-12 on it, but will be replaced with a Nightforce NX8 at some point.

I've seen the light. Literally and figuratively. Sticking to my buy once cry once philosophy going forward. Especially as my eyes age. Makes a YUGE difference.

I'm guessing after analysis paralysis I'll have to pick something like you said. And I don't mind buying and selling especially if it's a quality product that re sells itself. I'm not in any hurry. I'd for sure like to try several things at least. I know trying is different than living with, but you take what you can get.

This whole conversation has already helped my narrow focus which can be the hardest thing to start doing.

 

[hereinaz]

Wilco.

I understand the rabbit hole. It's why I'm here.

Most of my rifles now wear Nightforce and it' my rifle optic of choice. My budget optics at this point are Burris XTR Pros. I have 2 of those and they are relegated to my PCP air rifle and 22RL.

All my long range rifles at this point are PRS style guns and completely custom builds. My buddy Chuck is probably the best custom rifle builder that no one knows about.

I have a Remington 700 LA in 30-06 that I have been hunting with since day one. We're probably gonna build it into a "custom" hunting rifle of some form or another. That one still has my original Nikon Monarch 4-12 on it, but will be replaced with a Nightforce NX8 at some point.

I've seen the light. Literally and figuratively. Sticking to my buy once cry once philosophy going forward. Especially as my eyes age. Makes a YUGE difference.

I'm guessing after analysis paralysis I'll have to pick something like you said. And I don't mind buying and selling especially if it's a quality product that re sells itself. I'm not in any hurry. I'd for sure like to try several things at least. I know trying is different than living with, but you take what you can get.

This whole conversation has already helped my narrow focus which can be the hardest thing to start doing.

Lots just say “this is best” but it’s not that simple. I even figure stuff out in these conversations.

Yes, better glass makes it easy for my eyes too, lol.

 

[TaperPin]

But even the 12x42’s are probably gonna be a little much without a tripod thought correct?

So much depends on how you like to hunt, that has to be taken into account. The terrain, how mobile you are, distances, and personal preferences make it not a one size fits all.

For an average guy not all that interested in how binoculars are held, 12x can be too much. For a dedicated hunter who uses good technique, 12x can easily be hand held, even standing up. Get those elbows tight into the body and focus on minimizing movement - like shooting, the more you do the more steady you’ll get. Sitting down, a hiking pole, or even the barrel of the rifle is plenty for any glassing if there’s no tripod. Even with a tripod I don’t want binoculars to be attached - it’s too limiting. I’ll keep the spotting scope close enough that turning it sideways gives a nice place to rest the binoculars on - after a binocular scan, I’ll pick it apart with the scope, then repeat. Hands free binocular use may be great if all you do is use them like that, but our elk hunting is a lot of moving, glassing, moving, glassing, moving, glassing. Even with a quick detach, most times there’s no time or reason to set up a tripod as a single clearing, slide, or whatever comes into view.

If you’re shooting a competition definitely emulate the gear that works there. For any given type of hunting emulate the gear that works for the type of hunter you are.

Many guys are surprised to show up in an elk area for the first time and there is no or very limited long range glassing - that’s the perfect place for 8x30s and leave the tripod in the truck.

 

[jimh406]

I would be interested in hearing more about your idea that hunters value binoculars more and PRS style shooters value spotters more. Or why one is better in each situation vs the other.

I feel like most hunters will use the binoculars more since most can cover more area faster with binoculars. They are also lighter to carry, and I feel they are with them more. If you use a binoharness or otherwise have them on your chest, they are easy to get to while the spotting scope and tripod are probably in a pack.

I didn't say PRS, I said "long range shooting". To get the best zero, you have to see where you are hitting exactly. Spotting scopes are better for that. If you are simply calling the shot, either will probably work pretty well. But, if you want to see the bullet hole, the higher magnification of a spotting scope is better.

 

[iflyskyhigh]

Well. No shooting tomorrow. Actually have to go to work and make some money to pay for all this crap. We’ll pick this back up soon.