New arrows to the market

[Andymanofsteel]

Has anyone seen what Easton has released at the 2019 trade show? They've made an FMJ arrow that is tapered from 6mm to 4mm, giving the shaft a natural F.O.C.


Easton T64 Full Metal Jacket Delivers Built-In FOC

Thoughts?

 

[KeatonMullenix]

There’s no doubt a benefit to the design of the new shafts but there are more economical ways of achieving the same result/benefit. This is for the guys who have to have the newest item out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Newtosavage]

There’s no doubt a benefit to the design of the new shafts but there are more economical ways of achieving the same result/benefit. This is for the guys who have to have the newest item out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

IOW - Easton's core market.

 

[jmez]

$299 per six.

 

[Trial153]

300 a dozen. He misspoke

 

[KeatonMullenix]

300 a dozen. He misspoke

In that case I’ll try....... 1.

I went from shooting $9 setups to $15 and now I’m around $20. When does this end?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andymanofsteel]

Do you have a set up that helps you achieve this? I'm not asking in a condescending way... asking because I'm new to actually learning about my arrows setup. I have my first Elk hunt coming up in September this yr and really want to learn what a good set up would be..

 

[Trial153]

Yes, brass inserts or weights ....

This is hilarious. Easton has pushed back against higher FOC arrows for years. Now they are marketing 300 high FOC shafts. What a joke

 

[5MilesBack]

I've never been a fan of the FMJ's, and I was never a fan of tapered shafts. $300/doz is strike 3 for me.

 

[Beendare]

Marketing to the brainwashed Ashby crowd.....

FOC is the least important factor in archery.....now its the most expensive too

 

[Will_m]

What makes you say FOC is least important, beendare?

 

[jmez]

Gold Tip released some extreme FOC arrows as well.

 

[ElkNut1]

I would put FOC right near the top for pure penetration & speed, both will compliment the other no matter the archer! FOC is a better penetrator than total arrow weight where FOC isn't a factor!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Elkhntr08]

Proper FOC is part of the stabilization of the arrow. A stable arrow penetrates better.
A javelin flies straight because of FOC, it has no vanes, yet flies straight.

 

[Beendare]

I would put FOC right near the top for pure penetration & speed, both will compliment the other no matter the archer! FOC is a better penetrator than total arrow weight where FOC isn't a factor!

ElkNut/Paul

Paul, I would just say, "Show me proof."

The data....I would like to see your data- apples to apples comparisons....arrows of the same weight with different FOC...from the exact same bow. Do you have data to back that up?

Don't say, " Ashby"...he never provided his complete data set. [most of his His scientific studies were finger shot arrows in a Longbow] Nice guy but not apples to apples scientific studies. The one study he did show complete test parameters and data stating Very high FOC arrows fly further...was laughed out of existence by the physics community- he pulled that one and I haven't seen it in many years- Defied the laws of physics.
_____________

BTW, I didn't say, "FOC isn't a factor".........................................I said its " the least important factor." [Behind arrow flight, form, spine consistency, arrow straightness, BH concentriciy and tuning.]

WillM- What i mean by this; Arrow flight trumps everything. Some guys intentionally design their arrows from the get go with 30% FOC. The very high FOC claims don't factor in how all of that tip weight can destabilize an arrow on the launch, less forgiving of form errors.

FOC in and around the Easton recommended 8-16% range works.....no need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[traviswdalton]

Paul, I would just say, "Show me proof."

The data....I would like to see your data- apples to apples comparisons....arrows of the same weight with different FOC...from the exact same bow. Do you have data to back that up?

Don't say, " Ashby"...he never provided his complete data set. [most of his His scientific studies were finger shot arrows in a Longbow] Nice guy but not apples to apples scientific studies. The one study he did show complete test parameters and data stating Very high FOC arrows fly further...was laughed out of existence by the physics community- he pulled that one and I haven't seen it in many years- Defied the laws of physics.
_____________

BTW, I didn't say, "FOC isn't a factor".........................................I said its " the least important factor." [Behind arrow flight, form, spine consistency, arrow straightness, BH concentriciy and tuning.]

WillM- What i mean by this; Arrow flight trumps everything. Some guys intentionally design their arrows from the get go with 30% FOC. The very high FOC claims don't factor in how all of that tip weight can destabilize an arrow on the launch, less forgiving of form errors.

FOC in and around the Easton recommended 8-16% range works.....no need to reinvent the wheel.

Do a YouTube search you’ll find plenty examples of higher FOC penetrates more every time.

Or perhaps you could provide some proof that lower FOC penetrates better.

Just an FYI

10 keys to penetration

1. Structural integrity
2. Arrow flight
3. Ferrule to shaft ratio
4. Arrow weight 650
5. FOC > 20%
6. single bevel 3.0 M.A.
7. Tapered shaft
8. Shaft finish
9. Broad head finish
10. Momentum


Looks like you agree with Ashby a little. Arrow flight is number 2 on his list.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jaximus]

lots of familiar faces here! figured id join this site also, AT reading was getting slim...

building a high FoC tapered shaft on the FMJ platform shows more to me about easton and their incredible marketing than anything else. the entire premise of both is to minimize shaft deflection at impact which reduces lateral friction and improves penetration. doing so on a high GPI shaft is really counter intuitive. then only releasing it in 400-300 spines makes it even more laughable. the only place the potential benefits would even potentially be seen would be on a 250 dangerous game shaft where there would be enough target critter to stop the arrow. but easton didnt build that arrow, they built it on a 400 FMJ... the wet noodle arrow of hard impacts.

the only good thing they did with that arrow was put normal inserts on that shaft. it could help prevent the mushrooming of the front end that plagued that series from the start.

but, the marketing is really good. use the keywords, slap a diamond plate paint job on it and price it so its got 'prestige' and it will sell...

 

[ElkNut1]

Bruce, you bet I do sir! I have tested close to 1000 arrow setups & shots for penetration purposes over the years with arrow weights from 350 grains to over 700 grains. These tests have been done with Trad bows & Compound bows using tuned setups for each arrow weight. FOC is King by a mile! If you want some serious penetration sir go with an FOC from 16% & up from there. It's a game changer when you need the ultimate penetration! Nice thing is I do not like compromising speed for penetration, I want the balance of both! I'll share photos if possible shortly if this new forum setup will accept them, I have 100's, Thanks bud!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[ElkNut1]

Not reinventing the wheel, no need to. Many hunters out there would like to have as much penetration ability as possible from their bows & arrows without sacrificing speed. Spine, tuned, straight arrows is all a given, when those are equal (and they should be) FOC certainly can aid an arrows penetration more so than without.Two arrows of identical weight will be cast out of the same 66# bow at the same speed yet the one with the best FOC will out penetrate the other in every test I've done. I started doing these tests for my own benefit to prove to myself which would be best for my setup.

Note the variety of arrow weights here, these arrows are shot into two pieces of 3/4" OSB screwed together, I took 3 shots in all, all producing the same results. I also have these in 3 sheets of OSB. As you can see the 420 grain arrow with 192 grains up front is the clear winner (16%-17% Foc) even though there is the exact weight arrow with 117 grains of head weight. I did countless arrow weights, all spined & tuned correctly, the photo here shows those arrows are flying straight! Don't get me wrong, all 4 of those arrows would kill an elk, 2 are faster & more forgiving with less drop but one has the best of both worlds, speed & penetration, that arrow has been my choice for many years now.

ElkNut/Paul

 

[sharpshooter269]

Arrow dynamics made a tapered shaft arrow 20 years ago. I shot it for 3D, great for line cutters. Arrows were not consistent enough though.
Marketing hype is all this is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk