Need (ok want) Longer range Glassing capabilities

[JakeSCH]

good advice. thanks. If im not carrying the weight of a spotting scope (which until this thread I really thought was a "much bring" then I'm ok going with a set of higher quality / bigger binos.

are the nl Pures at 12x42 as good as "something else" maybe 12x50 in the same price range and under 40 oz? another way of saying is there a better choice if I compromise on size, regardless of price?

NL Pures 12x are THE standard. Everything else is compared to them. You can save a little $$ and buy the EL 12x50, but personally the FOV of the Pures puts then over the edge. The EL's might have an extra minute of light but it is just that, a minute.

Having a spotter to take photos is a great nice to have, a small spotter like the Kowa 553 or Swaro ATC are great and weigh the same as a set of binos. But really they are only needed to pick apart holes and to verify if something is legal.

Tripod and panhead are a must. In the west, we live behind binoculars. Plan to spend hours and hours behind them.

I would come up with a budget and work around that. On a "budget" a Maven B6 12x50 is on sale right now for $880 and is a tough beat for that price point. I personally own the NL 12x and will not give them up.


Right now I would personally recommend tricer panhead, tripod, and @gr8fuldoug for a great deal on an optic. Used optics on here are a great too, just make sure the person is reputable.

 

[StupidLightweight]

good advice. thanks. If im not carrying the weight of a spotting scope (which until this thread I really thought was a "much bring" then I'm ok going with a set of higher quality / bigger binos.

are the nl Pures at 12x42 as good as "something else" maybe 12x50 in the same price range and under 40 oz? another way of saying is there a better choice if I compromise on size, regardless of price?

I don't know of anything else on the market that can tough the NL Pures for size, weight, image, and magnification. Close range, I think it's too much power, but for a one optic solution, this is likely the reference standard. Sure wish I could afford a set!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

were going to pick up in wyoming and ferry from washington. Im not gonna haul it all the way. from arkansas

and yes cat 306 or equivalent. I havent bought yet. but there is a dealer up there i am working with.

Right on. I would consider looking at Kubota for compact equipment these days. I have a KX080-4 Mini Ex and a SVL97-2S Skid Steer... They are hard to beat on price and performance, plus that 0% financing is nice. Not to mention CAT uses Kubota engines in a lot of their compact machines anyway and paint them yellow...

 

[madscientist]

Right on. I would consider looking at Kubota for compact equipment these days. I have a KX080-4 Mini Ex and a SVL97-2S Skid Steer... They are hard to beat on price and performance, plus that 0% financing is nice. Not to mention CAT uses Kubota engines in a lot of their compact machines anyway and paint them yellow...

im going to buy whatever i can make money on by leaving in alaska. the plan is to run it just enough to pay for the ferry up and back, and sell it up there, hopefully for the alaska premium. ive got a few candidate that need a little work but are priced right. fortuantely i know a few guys up there with small mining outfits that would pay good money to have it delivered.

 

[Marshfly]

im going to buy whatever i can make money on by leaving in alaska. the plan is to run it just enough to pay for the ferry up and back, and sell it up there, hopefully for the alaska premium. ive got a few candidate that need a little work but are priced right. fortuantely i know a few guys up there with small mining outfits that would pay good money to have it delivered.

This is so innovative and outside of most people's box. I love it.

 

[hereinaz]

good advice. thanks. If im not carrying the weight of a spotting scope (which until this thread I really thought was a "much bring" then I'm ok going with a set of higher quality / bigger binos.

are the nl Pures at 12x42 as good as "something else" maybe 12x50 in the same price range and under 40 oz? another way of saying is there a better choice if I compromise on size, regardless of price?

There is really nothing better than them, and it is so conclusive that I will say it without looking through them personally. When guys I know are buying them and others are wishing they could buy them--to trade up from Swaro EL 12-50 and 15-56 at the insane cost difference, well.....

I am satisfied that I won't miss many animals with my 18xUHD, but if you have the money, find a place that will let you go look outside with them. You may go home with them.

We are talking marginal gains, and there are diminishing gains over what you have, but its gonna be a personal decision based on lots of factors that will depend on you and your pocket book.

 

[madscientist]

This is so innovative and outside of most people's box. I love it.

i doubt that. lol i see people taking equipment up there all the time. it wasnt even my idea. a guy that works for me takes every summer off and works at one of those mining outfits. to me its just a way to pay for my ferry and make a couple bucks while Im up, and leave a nice peice of equipment behind. I do a decent amount of dirt work in my off time. retaining walls and such. its therapy lol

also all that was 10% of the reason. the other 90% is that im taking my woman and i need an enclosed cab somewhere else LOL

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

also all that was 10% of the reason. the other 90% is that im taking my woman and i need an enclosed cab somewhere else LOL

HAHA!

 

[madscientist]

There is really nothing better than them, and it is so conclusive that I will say it without looking through them personally. When guys I know are buying them and others are wishing they could buy them--to trade up from Swaro EL 12-50 and 15-56 at the insane cost difference, well.....

I am satisfied that I won't miss many animals with my 18xUHD, but if you have the money, find a place that will let you go look outside with them. You may go home with them.

We are talking marginal gains, and there are diminishing gains over what you have, but its gonna be a personal decision based on lots of factors that will depend on you and your pocket book.

that marginal gain thing is what gets me. i can afford them but is it worth coming up with another 1500 or so for just a fraction better? I really would like to see the 12x42nl vs my 12x50hd. I think I'll look around for someone with a pair near me.

I remember when I went from my cheap walmarts to my moms nikons... and then from nikons to something a little better and from that to my vortex's i have now. each time i was like, damn, i wish i would of just bought these in the first place. I didnt see that when i bought the UHDs for my woman. i even tried some dark tests, but my 12x50s always held the edge especially for the money. . but if I see "damn this is good" view when i look through a pair of NLs, ill buy them.

 

[hereinaz]

that marginal gain thing is what gets me. i can afford them but is it worth coming up with another 1500 or so for just a fraction better? I really would like to see the 12x42nl vs my 12x50hd. I think I'll look around for someone with a pair near me.

I remember when I went from my cheap walmarts to my moms nikons... and then from nikons to something a little better and from that to my vortex's i have now. each time i was like, damn, i wish i would of just bought these in the first place. I didnt see that when i bought the UHDs for my woman. i even tried some dark tests, but my 12x50s always held the edge especially for the money. . but if I see "damn this is good" view when i look through a pair of NLs, ill buy them.

I had the Razor HD 12x50. In a store, I don't think you see the differences. But, like others are saying, when you are glassing all day, you begin to notice. It also helps if someone who knows how to point out differences can have you look at things like a white wall, and then show you where the color fringing is. You don't really see the color fringing all that often, but it is there making the image less clear.

Try this with your Razor on a clear bright day, look out a couple hundred yards on something very white, and pay attention to the edges. You will probably see a purple like halo. Then, focus it on a sign with letters a few hundred yards away, and put the letters in the center. Then, move the binoculars so that the letters are the the very edge of the field of view. You'll see that the outer 1/3 of the Razors is noticably different than the center.

If you buy EL you will have much less color fringing if any, and as you move the letters to the edge of the field of view, the outer 1/3 will remain clear.

What that means is that with Razors, if you only look through the center of the glass, you'll never really feel like you need to upgrade. But, if you want to move your eyes and look through the entire field of view, then you will want to upgrade.

As a practical matter, when I had the Razor HD, I have been glassing all day next to someone with better glass than me. I aboslutely loved my Razor and couldn't believe how clear they were. I was SOOOO happy. Then, they spotted a coues deer, and walked me into the right spot to see it. I knew I was looking at the correct saguaro cactus but I just couldn't see the deer in my binos. I looked through theirs and saw it. I look through mine and even though I knew exactly where it was, I still really couldn't see it. That was with my Razor HD vs. 12 EL at about a mile.

So, given that story, when lots of us hunters who heavily rely on our glass hear others talk about how they don't see the difference and don't need it, well, we know that there are animals out there that they aren't seeing.

I upgraded from Razor HD 12x to a Leica 12x Ultravid because it was enough difference to pay the $1000. I don't know that I would spend the money to go from that to the 12x NL pure. But, that's a personal decision because the Leica is "good enough" for the money I have to invest right now.

You very well could stick with your Razor HD. But, if you are there for your third day of glassing 5-8 hours a day, and you sit down behind a pair of Swaro 15 EL, all that time will give you the ability to see a difference in many things. They aren't as obvious as the jumps to the Razor, but they are real. That is what happened to me on my first hunt.

Opinions vary, but if you look at who is telling you to buy the best bino you can, it is typically the hunters who live behind the glass picking apart a bowl, basin, or canyon for hours, knowing that if they just catch the ear twitch, a black nose, or a shiny antler tine they can have a chance at an animal. The ones who are OK with something less are hunting in a different area or just aren't hunting the same way.

On the other hand, I was glassing for caribou on the tundra this year, and I could see them with my naked eye out to a mile and more. I left my 18x in the tent and carried my 10x Fury for the last couple of days because I didn't need the magnification or clarity of the UHD.

So, the answer depends upon the context...

 

[madscientist]

raded from Razor HD 12x to a Leica 12x Ultravid because it was enough difference to pay the $1000. I don't know that I would spend the money to go from that to the 12x NL pure. But, that's a personal decision because the Leica is "good enough" for the money I have to invest right now.

You very well could stick with your Razor HD. But, if you are there for your third day of glassing 5-8 hours a day, and you sit down behind a pair of Swaro 15 EL, all that time will give you the ability to see a difference in many things. They aren't as obvious as the jumps to the Razor, but they are real. That is what happened to me on my first hunt.

Opinions vary, but if you look at who is telling you to buy the best bino you can, it is typically the hunters who live behind the glass picking apart a bowl, basin, or canyon for hours, knowing that if they just catch the ear twitch, a black nose, or a shiny antler tine they can have a chance at an animal. The ones who are OK with something less are hunting in a different area or just aren't hunting the same way.

On the other hand, I was glassing for caribou on the tundra this year, and I could see them with my naked eye out to a mile and more. I left my 18x in the tent and carried my 10x Fury for the last couple of days because I didn't need the magnification or clarity of the UHD.

well put. I'll do some of the things you;ve mentioned and start looking for some scenarios near me that push my HD's . thanks for everyones input.

 

[roweraay]

I liked everything I heard about the NL Pures and did handle a 10x42 at the nearby Bass Pro shop yesterday. While there, I also tried out the Swarovski 12x50EL and the 15x56 SLC.

The NL Pures distinguish themselves with the wide, crystal like view, while being small, light and portable. I could not believe how small it felt, vis-a-vis the 12x50 and the 15x56.

Having said that, on a solid tripod, the 15x56 (despite its narrow, tunnel-like view), with its big objectives and high magnification, will be able to ferret out details that the 12s simply cannot. It is just physics. I specifically looked for details within shadow areas and I personally would give the edge to the 15s, vis-a-vis the 10x42 NL or the 12x50 EL. Not sure if the 12x42 NL would have made a difference here.

I am personally debating about a general purpose binocular and looking at the NLs (both 10x and 12x), along with the 10x50EL and the 10x56SLC. The SLC, despite being a 56mm, is still not that large, when compared to a few other 56mm binoculars out there.

 

[hereinaz]

I liked everything I heard about the NL Pures and did handle a 10x42 at the nearby Bass Pro shop yesterday. While there, I also tried out the Swarovski 12x50EL and the 15x56 SLC.

The NL Pures distinguish themselves with the wide, crystal like view, while being small, light and portable. I could not believe how small it felt, vis-a-vis the 12x50 and the 15x56.

Having said that, on a solid tripod, the 15x56 (despite its narrow, tunnel-like view), with its big objectives and high magnification, will be able to ferret out details that the 12s simply cannot. It is just physics. I specifically looked for details within shadow areas and I personally would give the edge to the 15s, vis-a-vis the 10x42 NL or the 12x50 EL. Not sure if the 12x42 NL would have made a difference here.

I am personally debating about a general purpose binocular and looking at the NLs (both 10x and 12x), along with the 10x50EL and the 10x56SLC. The SLC, despite being a 56mm, is still not that large, when compared to a few other 56mm binoculars out there.

Because of practical limitations, I think it is debatable/personal choice which “sees” the detail better, between 12x with higher clarity or 15x with more magnification.

Once the range increases, atmospheric conditions decrease visibility so no glass can correct for mirage and shimmer to resolve details. Inside that range before atmospheric conditions start to degrade visibility, it’s a toss up.

Factor in the first and last light. I still think it’s a bit of a toss up between the magnification over the clarity.

All that said, whatever choice you make will be with your particular biases and philosophy of use, so trust your gut with it. Your eyes could need one or the other. If it’s better for you, go with it. You can’t go wrong with that glass, unless someone convinces you to go against your gut.