Need help deciphering a missed shot

[PLhunter]

Trying to diagnose a series of missed shots on a buck. The situation was a 510 yard shot at about a 25 degree angle across a basin in steep terrain.

I had lots of preparation time for this shot as the buck was not my target, but after my target buck got dropped across the basin, this smaller 4 point became a lot more intriguing. He was bedded down for about 20 minutes so I was able to get well setup for the shot. At least as well setup as one can get on such a steep slope.

The deer was ranged with the “hcd” setting on a vortex rangefinder at 509 yards. Which was really fortunate actually because my last practice session prior to the hunt was for 513 yards and had good success. I do practice further.

Buck was in young aspens with leaves. There wasn’t much leaf movement and at my location there was a light breeze coming almost straight on. He stood up and was broadside when I shot. Shot felt great very little reticle movement with a clean break and he hopped at the shot. I thought I had a hit but he proceeded to act normally and mill around with his does. So I shot again, again it felt great. And again. My friend couldn’t see my shots and neither could I. At this point I stopped shooting because it felt like no bullets were coming out and had no called reason for misses.

The buck moved up the mountain before settling down and feeding before bedding with his does. We made a move but didn’t get another shot as another hunter came over to investigate and bumped them.

It was probably 30 minutes before we went up after the deer post shot. When we crossed through a saddle the wind was absolutely whipping. 30-40 mph. But looking down at the zone where the buck was there still wasn’t a lot of motion.

Fast forward to the last evening of the hunt we had a couple yearling bucks come out at 380. I decided to take one and dialed my dope and this time my friend saw the shot. Well high. Again a steep downhill angle but the “hcd” setting was on so I dialed based on that. With the shot spotted I was able to adjust and harvest the buck.

In the old days my dad used to have me hold below body for steep downhill shots. It generally worked too. But with the modern tools of advanced rangefinders it seems unnecessary. I shot up to 650 in the field after the first miss for practice and my dope was good. Unfortunately though the only good rock opportunities happened to be at fairly flat angles. I’ve harvested bucks in the 400-500 range a fair number of times but for some reason I had a real hard time with these situations this season and haven’t been able to get a smoking gun reason why.

One variable from prior seasons was that I was using a much slower projectile than I am used to. I wasn’t able to find a satisfactory hand load in time, I had been waiting for my rokstok, to begin load development. It never came so I ended up using factory loads. Albeit factory loads that shot very well but very slow.

 

[FAAFO]

You lost me at vortex.. Just joking. I have no idea why you missed. If you went over and checked for blood did you happen to see if you were hitting high or low?

 

[PLhunter]

You lost me at vortex.. Just joking. I have no idea why you missed. If you went over and checked for blood did you happen to see if you were hitting high or low?

It’s very unusual for me but I didn’t go down to check. Mostly because I’ve never been able to watch a deer I’ve shot at for this amount of time. He gained 2000 feet of elevation without skipping a beat. Watched him feed through the spotting scope and everything. He did get smoked the next morning.

 

[Antares]

I think you missed because a high angle, 550 yard shot in field conditions is a really challenging shot.

 

[PLhunter]

I think you missed because a high angle, 550 yard shot in field conditions is a really challenging shot.

Could very well be. It’s just I’ve rarely ever felt so perfectly confident on a shot. Then to have the projectile nowhere to be found had me baffled.

My guess is there was more wind cross canyon then I could read from the slopes and that there is something to my old man’s insistence that downhill shots are more than just triangulating the distance. I’ve hit bucks at steep angles before but always with loads where adjusting to hit something at 500 yards is 4-5 moa and not 10 moa. You’ve gotta be spot on with dope when dropping in a heavy slow bullet.

 

[TaperPin]

When we crossed through a saddle the wind was absolutely whipping. 30-40 mph. But looking down at the zone where the buck was there still wasn’t a lot of motion.

I’m picturing you below the deer and there is a gentle breeze coming over the top of the bowl and blowing down the slope in your face. As soon as you mentioned the high winds on top it sounds like down drafts got you.

As wind pours over the top of a ridge and down the other side it acts just like water flowing over a rock in a stream and curls around the back side, but that can mean a total down draft in spots, upslope wind in others, and farther down the slope will get flow in the same direction as the wind coming over the top. I would tend to think the bullet passed through an area with a down draft and you shot under the deer. The actual distance the bullet was flying through the air (the distance effected by wind drift) was closer to 575 yards. With only a 5 mph downdraft my 6.5 PRC would zip under the deer at that range, but there was probably no down draft for some of the path, and stronger in the middle where the bullet was furthest off the ground.

That could still jive with minimal wind at the deer and only a slight breeze in your face. Of course a slight cross wind you’re not feeling would do the same.



Cross winds can be hard to read where the bullet is up off the ground. I like this picture because it shows canyon winds totally calm down where the firefighter is and it’s not until above the tree tops that the wind carries the smoke upslope.

 

[Fireflyfishing]

Ditch the vortex rangefinder. They suck.

What cartridge and load were you using?

 

[Rich M]

Sounds like you need to spend some time practicing those shots before next season. Figure out what needs to be done diff.

 

[PLhunter]

Ditch the vortex rangefinder. They suck.

What cartridge and load were you using?

What do you recommend? This rangefinder has great glass and picks up ranges farther than most and matches distances by other rangefinders. But also haven’t done a lot of extreme angle comparisons. I have friends with sigs that really like them. The glass is terrible to me in the sigs but it’s a rangefinder.

I was using my creedmoor. With 147 eldm factory ammo. This was my first time in years using factory rounds. But I was waiting for my rokstok to start load development and it never came. I started load development a month before the hunt when it was clear it was never going to arrive but couldn’t identify a load that met my standards, considering the bullet I was using is from a company that is out of business (badlands), I wanted to be sure to use my limited supply well. The gun shoots the factory rounds very well and they were chrono’d out of my rifle.

Previously, I had hunted with hammers out of this rifle and taken deer and pronghorn out to 500 with that load. Those were going 3000 fps. The eldm 2610. The hammers never let me down in that rifle but in another rifle I had some experiences regarding bc variability that made me want to switch.

 

[PLhunter]

I’m picturing you below the deer and there is a gentle breeze coming over the top of the bowl and blowing down the slope in your face. As soon as you mentioned the high winds on top it sounds like down drafts got you.

As wind pours over the top of a ridge and down the other side it acts just like water flowing over a rock in a stream and curls around the back side, but that can mean a total down draft in spots, upslope wind in others, and farther down the slope will get flow in the same direction as the wind coming over the top. I would tend to think the bullet passed through an area with a down draft and you shot under the deer. The actual distance the bullet was flying through the air (the distance effected by wind drift) was closer to 575 yards. With only a 5 mph downdraft my 6.5 PRC would zip under the deer at that range, but there was probably no down draft for some of the path, and stronger in the middle where the bullet was furthest off the ground.

That could still jive with minimal wind at the deer and only a slight breeze in your face. Of course a slight cross wind you’re not feeling would do the same.

View attachment 785437

Cross winds can be hard to read where the bullet is up off the ground. I like this picture because it shows canyon winds totally calm down where the firefighter is and it’s not until above the tree tops that the wind carries the smoke upslope.

View attachment 785438

View attachment 785432

Thanks. My buddy and I talked about the flowing river theory after. The soft moist dirt may have hidden the impacts well too so I had nothing to adjust by.

The shot was from uphill to downhill. We were about 100 feet of elevation below the saddle and the deer probably 500 feet or more. The wind in the saddle was going the opposite direction of any other day on the hunt and opposite of what I’d guess the wind was at our location. If im thinking of the river right it would have resulted in a significant updraft. It’s discouraging though because all you can read is your location and the target location. That middle ground is a mystery. There is a reason I’ve kept it at or below 400 on most hunts. This one seemed to be worth the trade off for preparation time and calm deer in exchange for a longer shot.

 

[TaperPin]

Thanks. My buddy and I talked about the flowing river theory after. The soft moist dirt may have hidden the impacts well too so I had nothing to adjust by.

The shot was from uphill to downhill. We were about 100 feet of elevation below the saddle and the deer probably 500 feet or more. The wind in the saddle was going the opposite direction of any other day on the hunt and opposite of what I’d guess the wind was at our location. If im thinking of the river right it would have resulted in a significant updraft. It’s discouraging though because all you can read is your location and the target location. That middle ground is a mystery. There is a reason I’ve kept it at or below 400 on most hunts. This one seemed to be worth the trade off for preparation time and calm deer in exchange for a longer shot.

Oh I gotcha. Mountain winds make a guy think, that’s for sure. Sounds like you should have got him. One of those mysteries of life.

 

[waspocrew]

I'd think it was the wind more than likely. Sounds like a tough shot regardless!

I don't think it was your rangefinder, but if you're questioning and wanting to upgrade, the Revic is a great option. Fast, accurate, and ranges way out there. It's been years since I've used Sig, but I never had an issue. I'm sure the newer ones are good as well.

 

[Brucebarker024]

That’s a tough shot to make. My muley was almost identical. 548 yards 24 degrees downhill. I was setup on a cliff band and he was 50 yards off the bottom of the canyon on the other side. Certainly my toughest shot in the field and I didn’t have any wind to contend with.

 

[sndmn11]

It’s very unusual for me but I didn’t go down to check.

It’s just I’ve rarely ever felt so perfectly confident on a shot. Then to have the projectile nowhere to be found had me baffled.

These two sentences don't make sense. The projectile was never going to be found because you skipped the tracking part.

 

[wind gypsy]

Sounds like wind between the shooter and target that wasn't obvious at either. People who are good at this type of thing use their optics to read mirage between shooter and target. Adjust optic focus to pick up the mirage at different distances. Something that needs practice though.

Thanks for sharing. This is another good example for people that 500+ yards (and shorter) in mountain conditions can be a tough shot, regardless if you think your tools tell you what the dope is.

 

[KenLee]

Could very well be. It’s just I’ve rarely ever felt so perfectly confident on a shot. Then to have the projectile nowhere to be found had me baffled.

My guess is there was more wind cross canyon then I could read from the slopes and that there is something to my old man’s insistence that downhill shots are more than just triangulating the distance. I’ve hit bucks at steep angles before but always with loads where adjusting to hit something at 500 yards is 4-5 moa and not 10 moa. You’ve gotta be spot on with dope when dropping in a heavy slow bullet.

Begs the question, why did you switch to a heavy slow bullet???

 

[PLhunter]

These two sentences don't make sense. The projectile was never going to be found because you skipped the tracking part.

I’m referring to seeing the impact during the shot. I watched this buck for a long time and going down to where the shot was taken would have been essentially useless for tracking purposes compared to going to where he fed and milled around as well as where he went over the top of the mountain. We left the location I shot from to try and get on him again when his does bedded down. It’s very unlikely I would have found the bullet impact in the dirt had I gone down into that hole.

 

[PLhunter]

Begs the question, why did you switch to a heavy slow bullet???

Time crunch. I’ve got young kids and primarily archery hunt. So my time to reload and shoot was limited. The heavy slow ammo grouped well and was available. So I used my last two shooting sessions with a known commodity to confirm dope and zero.

I am working on a load with my remaining badlands 125’s that’ll be a lot more in line with what I prefer. I had been waiting for the stock to arrive to really dial it in. Unfortunately it was always “next shipment out.” For many many months. Still isn’t here actually ordered in January.

 

[sndmn11]

I’m referring to seeing the impact during the shot. I watched this buck for a long time and going down to where the shot was taken would have been essentially useless for tracking purposes compared to going to where he fed and milled around as well as where he went over the top of the mountain. We left the location I shot from to try and get on him again when his does bedded down. It’s very unlikely I would have found the bullet impact in the dirt had I gone down into that hole.

You lost the bullet impact when you shot, correct, but also saw a buck flinch, correct?

You watched a buck walk away, but haven't a clue if the bullet you sent from five hundo hit a buck because you never went over there and looked. How do you know what buck you shot and what buck walked away if you didn't go to where the deer were? "Perfectly confident"...

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rokslide.com

This is a good post to read through and should highlight that what one sees through the glass is vastly different than standing there first-hand. I find carcasses every year in locations where they should be found very easily. The idea that if the animal doesn't flop over in sight it must have been a miss and no need to track it down is easily avoidable and a black eye for hunters.

 

[KenLee]

The idea that if the animal doesn't flop over in sight it must have been a miss and no need to track it down is easily avoidable and a black eye for hunters.

Amen! I'd write my only child out of the will if I heard such from him.