Neck vs FL sizing?

[Justin Crossley]

I have done both and I haven't seen a big advantage to one over the other. I would like to know what some of you guys are doing and why.

Maybe also some basic pros and cons.

 

[mtswampfox]

My two rem 700 and savage 223 have very similar chambers. Am able to use redding s dies with titanium buttons to just resize about an eighth of an inch . This eliminates working the brass thus increasing case life which is good if you prairie dog shoot a lot. Different brass takes different buttons so you must not mix the brass, usually military runs a little thicker thus taking a smaller button. Try to only full length size for the autos ar15 and m1a

 

[littlebuf]

i neck size in my bolt actions primarily because its easier on the brass and one less step of having to lube each case. i have read and suppose subscribe to the theory that the amount of energy (all be it likely very small) that goes into expanding a full length sized case to the chamber is saved and sent down the barrel in a already expanded and only neck sized case. is that true? i think probably. is it a measurable difference? i think probably not, but not sure how you would test it other than the FPS of the two rounds, but its likely to small to fall outside the parameters of standard deviation. so i fall back on it being one less step to reloading. my AR of course i full length size as not to get jambs

 

[robby denning]

It has depended on the gun, just like any other component, some like FL over Neck,
My Sako demanded it, but my WBY doesn't care. Just one variable in the equation.

 

[Sam Millard]

I full length size everything, every time. If your rifle's headspace is correct, and you set your FL die up for minimal sizing, you will have nothing to worry about as far as overworking the brass in this area. Regardless of how you size, the neck has to be squeezed down enough to grip the bullet, then expand enough to allow the bullet to release. It will move at least .005-.006" every time the shoot/reload cycle is repeated. A quality full length die correctly set up will only "bump" the shoulder .002-.003" and squeeze the body down .0005" directly in front of the extractor groove.

As far as pros and cons, I have not seen any accuracy problems full length sizing. I normally run batches of 100-200 pieces of brass for each rifle and wear barrels out before any problems with brass (except primer pockets in the big 338).

If you shoot down in the dirt with a muzzle brake, not full length sizing will eventually bite you in the ass with a dirty chamber and dirty ammo that won't play well together!

Careful full length sizing will make the brass exactly the same every time. Neck sizing only will eventually force you to bump the shoulder to allow easy bolt closing. I have seen pressure problems if you run close to the edge anyway, with brass that was too tight for an easy bolt closure.

Whatever you decide on doing, make sure you understand what is happening with the brass throughout the cycle, and what you are doing to it when you resize it. Good measuring tools and the ability to use them correctly is paramount!

 

[LaHunter]

I full length size my 7mm rem mag brass and use the Redding Competition shell holder (.010").
As I was getting into reloading, most resources that I read favored FL sizing over neck sizing for hunting calibers.
As Sam Millard stated, the potential for a round not chambering under field conditions is increased when using neck sized brass.
For me, any potential benefit of neck sizing does not outweigh the risk of a round not chambering freely.

 

[littlebuf]

ive never experienced trouble chambering neck sized rounds. but ive also only reloaded for factory rifles who's chambers i imagine aren't near as tight of tolerances as a custom in regards to head space. something ill have to remember when i build a rifle

 

[Sam Millard]

ive never experienced trouble chambering neck sized rounds. but ive also only reloaded for factory rifles who's chambers i imagine aren't near as tight of tolerances as a custom in regards to head space. something ill have to remember when i build a rifle

This is a good point! A fresh chamber reamer can make a big difference in a rifle's accuracy potential as well as it's sensitivity to brass dimensions and dirt

Cartridge diameter, length, taper, etc. can effect chambering difficulty as well.

 

[ST52v]

My brother started with just a neck size die and after a few rounds he could not close his bolt. It was a 270 wsm savage model 116. He had to buy a bodie die and bump them back. I just got my redding full length type s die and comp seater die for my 7 mag last week. I just need to pick up a few more things and the weather to break. Any tips on using the new dies with brand new brass and some that have been fired a few times? How many of you guys anneal the necks?

 

[sendero72]

I full length also. Without going off topic to far, how often do you guys clean your dies?

 

[Broz]

In my opinion if a guy wants true precision ammo, to fit his particular rifle, he needs to understand the brass prep and sizing is key in this process. Proper neck tension that is consistent, along with a properly located shoulder that allows .002 to" .0025" of head space with cases fired in his rifle is very important.

You will only get away with neck sizing for so many number of firings before the headspace will be zero and tighten bolt closure. (not good, pressure rises, Es goes out the window and your precision rifle will shoot groups that resemble a cheap 12 ga.) So why not research the proper way to measure head space to the shoulder, set up dies to get the much sought after and needed .002" of head space and maintain it, and also obtain and maintain repeated consistent neck tension too.

I do this with bushing dies, a set of Redding competition shell holders, a Redding body die and a good annealing machine. Do you need to do this to kill deer at 300 or 400 yards? No, but when you move out to 1000+ on a coyote or want to make head shots on squirrels cold bore at 400 + yards. These things will pay off in huge dividends.

Jeff

 

[Justin Crossley]

Thanks for all the good info guys! I am always trying to learn more and step up my game.

 

[ST52v]

^^^^x2 Top this off with how hard it is to find supplies and it's cost i want to get the most out of it. I'm getting a set of comparator gauges and head space gauges. Thanks guys for the info.

 

[Sam Millard]

I full length also. Without going off topic to far, how often do you guys clean your dies?

Every time I size a batch. I also make sure the brass is spotless before lube is applied. Carbon or dirt will scratch dies and brass, and it's a pain in the ass to get out of the die if it gets imbedded.

 

[fire arrow]

In my opinion if a guy wants true precision ammo, to fit his particular rifle, he needs to understand the brass prep and sizing is key in this process. Proper neck tension that is consistent, along with a properly located shoulder that allows .002 to" .0025" of head space with cases fired in his rifle is very important.

You will only get away with neck sizing for so many number of firings before the headspace will be zero and tighten bolt closure. (not good, pressure rises, Es goes out the window and your precision rifle will shoot groups that resemble a cheap 12 ga.) So why not research the proper way to measure head space to the shoulder, set up dies to get the much sought after and needed .002" of head space and maintain it, and also obtain and maintain repeated consistent neck tension too.

I do this with bushing dies, a set of Redding competition shell holders, a Redding body die and a good annealing machine. Do you need to do this to kill deer at 300 or 400 yards? No, but when you move out to 1000+ on a coyote or want to make head shots on squirrels cold bore at 400 + yards. These things will pay off in huge dividends.

Jeff

Alright since you through it out there I have to ask. You said learn how measure Head Spacing off the shoulders. I have always used a sinclair bump gague with the correct insert, measured all the brass, and set up my body or FL sizer to bump the brass that was the shortest back .002. Is this the way you were talking about.

 

[Sam Millard]

Not Jeff, but I'm sure he'll chime in. ^^^^That's what I do. Careful application of Hornady One-Shot will keep the brass right where you want it every stroke of the ram.

Make sure the primer is out of the case before you measure length.

Brass from my +P Edge comes out of the chamber @ 2.4155...comes out of the die @ 2.4130...every time

 

[fire arrow]

I just looked up the compotition shell holders and I now understand how they could help with getting the bump set up just right with out having to adjust your die off of its alignment mark.

Jeff, did you replace your Redding Lockrings with the Sinclair one's? And, do you tighten your FL sizer down tight, or run a rubber gasket under it and hand tighten it? Only reason I ask about the rubber gasket is I had a BR guy tell me to try running my neck sizer hand tight with a gasket so the die can align its self with the case better. I know it's a huge difference between FL and neck sizing set up and I just wanted to ask.

 

[Stid2677]

Since I'm an aircraft mechanic,, I measure everything, I use a digital head space gauge. I FL resize, I hunt remote with lots of bears around so I want trouble free loading, plus I never saw any huge advantage in accuracy when I did neck size. When you know your headspace and only bump back .002, it is not really that hard on the brass. I clean my brass and dies every time, I use stainless steel media on the dirty stuff and run it through the vibrator after sizing to get the lube off.

http://www.larrywillis.com/

RCBS makes caliber specific Precision Mic gages, these will measure headspace, seating and distance to lands.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...291_a_7c1020_a_7c749006295_d_749006314_d_5599

 

[Broz]

I square my dies and tighten them. The process is to cam them over in a T-7 press using Redding competition dies then snug the ring. Once cammed over the die is aligned to the ram and shell holder. But it is important to know the Redding comp seating and neck dies have a retractable sleeve that insures the case is aligned to the die and stays in alignment while any work is being done. This is what you gain with the competition dies over the "S" type or less expensive dies.

I use the Hornaday headspace gage with bushings to check head space. I find chamber length with a piece of brass that needs a bump and has a little resistance on bolt closure. Test this with a 3 position safety in the middle location which removes and conking tension as the bolt is closed, or remove the firing pin assembly from the bolt so you only are feeling the bolt closure and not any cocking tension.

Jeff

 

[LaHunter]

Jeff,
I learn a lot every time I read your posts. What is your opinion comparing the Redding Competition Bullet Seating Die to the Foster or other brands? Seams like there are a lot of varied opinions out there.
Thanks