My thoughts on the current alpha rangefinding binos (Zeiss Victory RF, Leica 3200.com, Swarovski El Range)

[dryflyelk]

I've been working on getting one of the latest/greatest rangefinding binos for a few months and i thought it may be helpful for some if i share my opinions on the big 3 here. I don't have any experience with the Bushnell, Sig, Vortex, or any others. A lot of this will be splitting hairs, but I'll give you my opinion on how i'm splitting them.

Swarovski El Range

I'm a big time Swaro fan boy and I've had the El Range since they were released in 2012 or whenever that was. I have loved them, with a few major complaints. I had hoped that swaro would address these complaints with the refresh they did a few years ago, but nope, no luck.
My first and biggest complaint is that Swaro doesn't use their best glass and coatings in their rangefinder. I have and had other swaro binos with the swarovision, and they were noticeably better than the El Range optics. I had 10x swarovision binos i sold for something else along the way and i really missed those. I still have 8x Els with the swarovision, and i love those things to death. When i'm using the El Range i miss the perfect edge to edge picture. That's not to say that the El Range is bad, because it's not - it's still top shelf. But when you get used to amazing, anything less is a disappointment. I'm sure the Pure series will push that even further.

A few other quibbles i have with the El Range - the button location. I'm an archer so i hate reaching over the bino to hit the button that's on the left side. It's manageable, but not ideal. I also don't like that the minimum range is 33 yards. That sucks. Again - i was hoping swaro would address these issues with the latest iteration, but they did not.

Finally, the Zeiss and Leica offerings have integrated ballistics calculators. Swaro does not. It does include angle compensation, but that's about it.

I'm sure swaro is working on something amazing, but i'm sick of waiting. They are quite a bit behind the others right now optically and technologically.


Leica Geovid 3200.com

I currently have these at my house. I've been playing with them for the last 6 weeks or so trying to decide if i want to keep them. On paper they look amazing. I have a couple of concerns with them as well, however.

Can we talk about the name - 3200.com? That is the stupidest name for a rangefinder i've ever seen. I'd expect that out of a cheap chinese brand, but not Leica. One thing I don't like with the Geovid series is how often they are updating and changing the bino. That sucks for resale and it's tough to keep track of. Guys that bought geovids 2 years ago are already 3 or 4 binos back on the latest and greatest. Chill, Leica! While I appreciate the push to advance, I think refreshing the geovid every 3 years or so would be better than what we've seen. The complete opposite of swarovski. 2200, 2500,. 2200 B, 2600R , 28000, blah blah blah. Too much.

The optics are inarguably top notch. They are better than the El Range. I haven't been able to take them out at night or do any serious testing, but I'm very pleased with the optics in the Geovid. Because they use a laser that is situated in the center of the bino hinge, they can use their standard highest coatings on the bino, and it shows. Great optics.

The last few sets before the .com (again, what a horrible name) allowed users to update ballistic tables with a mini sd card. That has now switched to bluetooth. You use the Leica app on your phone and upload that data for your rifles to your bino. Your bino then does all the math and calculations and spits out what you need.

Zeiss did this with their Victory RF in 2018, so Leica clearly felt like it needed to catch up. It really looks as if they pushed this thing out the door without working out a lot of the bugs. The phone app is clunky and not intuitive. The menu in the bino itself is very buggy and hard to navigate. In fact, to find the instructions, i had to dig through downloads on the Leica website. Without that, i wouldn't have known how to do it. Even with the GUI app on the phone, it is clunky and doesn't work half the time. I may have a faulty pair, but my binos get "stuck" half the time i try to change anything in the menu. The red rangefinding reticle sits and spins and thinks....indefinitely. The only way for me to stop it is to take out the battery and reset it.

I have a call in with Leica support, so hopefully they have some kind of fix for me. As it stands now, I wouldn't take them hunting. If i needed a critical range, i couldn't trust them.

When the rangefinder does work, it's fast and simple. Very straightforward. It ranges down to very close and the button is in a great location, unlike the swaro.

Another small complaint i have with the geovid is that there isn't a great way to mount a stud to put them on a tripod. The laser sits in the middle on the hinge, so you'll have to use the platform strap thing if you want to tripod mount them.


Zeiss Victory RF

I haven't owned these (yet), but i think that's about to change. I've spend quite a bit of time with them at cabela's and i've used their software you can download that updates the binos.

These Victory RFs are freaking expensive (and i know it's all relative when talking about these things, because they are all expensive, but these are considerably more than the others). The 10x42s are like $6-700 more street price than the Leica. They come in around 3300 -3400 after haggling. Zeiss was running a promo last year where you got a free set of their Terra binos if you bought the RF, and those are worth about $500 or so, so that made it closer financially, but right now they are way more expensive.

Optics, like the Leica, are Zeiss's top of the line stuff. It appears that they offer the same glass and coatings used in their best Victory binos. They looked amazing at the store, but i haven't seen them in the field yet. I trust guys that say they are terrific in low light. I think their light transmission is 92%, which is a percentage or 2 above the others, and quite a bit better than the glass in the outdated El Range.

I don't love the look and the armor on the Zeiss. It just feels cheaper than the swaro and the Leica. That's a personal thing, though.

The size and weight are terrific. They do not look or feel like rangefinding binos. The buttons are easily reachable and you can swap what button you want doing what function for right or left handers. The Zeiss also ranges very close.

The rangefinder is fast and accurate. The software that comes with the app and binos is way, waaaaay better than what Leica has. Super easy to use and very intuitive. You don't really need instructions, unlike Leica, where i felt i needed to study it all. Way more thought and development went into the zeiss interface, and it shows.

The rangefinder max range is quite a bit less than the Leica - something like 2500 vs 3200 - but that makes no difference to me, and my furthest shots will be a heck of a lot shorter than either of them can zap.

Outdoorsmans makes a bino stud for the Victory that is great and easy to install, making the zeiss the most tripod friendly of this trio.

It should also be mentioned that the Zeiss makes a 10x54 RF that looks amazing...but it's several oz heavier and quite a bit longer and a few hundy more expensive. I'm sure the view of of them is amazing, however. I'm still considering these as well.


Right now I'm not sure if I'm going to end up with the Leica or Zeiss. It depends how good the support i get from Leica is and also if perhaps Zeiss can toss me a set of their promo binos.

Here's how i rank them, cost not considered:
1. Zeiss
2. Leica
3. Swaro

Cost factored in, it goes
1. Leica
2. Zeiss
3. Swaro


Let me know if you have any questions i can answer.

 

[JGRaider]

The biggest problem I saw with the Geovid 3000 is that it would not "spit out" wind corrections.......elevation only. This is pathetic for a $2500+ unit IMO. Not sure if they've corrected it or not with the 3200. The Swaro unit has a left handed button press design which also makes no sense. I'm wondering if anyone who actually hunts and shoots has any input when they design these things?

 

[dryflyelk]

JG - Im not sure how you want these things to do the wind correction. It’s a bino. There’s not a way for them to determine wind speed and direction.
The only option is to be able to Bluetooth to a separate kestrel device. Leica has that, Zeiss does not.

 

[JGRaider]

They can do it just like Sig does. If you have to have separate instruments in addition to the bino/rf unit itself then I don't see the benefit to owning one.

 

[Bubblehide]

They can do it just like Sig does. If you have to have separate instruments in addition to the bino/rf unit itself then I don't see the benefit to owning one.

Sig does it by linking a seperate instrument, a Kestrel.

 

[264win]

My experience was very similar to OP, except that I found the Leica struggled to get readings when the weather was very cold or very wet/foggy.

BTW, I kept the ZEISS, sold the others.

 

[dryflyelk]

JGRaider - i've read all of the threads that mention rangefinding binos on here over the last while, and you seem super concerned about wind - to the point it appears to consume your every thought. We may need to start a gofundme to help you buy a kestrel so you can sleep easy at night.

 

[unclericco]

LOL this guy??? Got some pics of all these optics?

 

[dryflyelk]

I’ll have your mom take some pics when she’s over here this afternoon.

 

[unclericco]

 

[JGRaider]

Sig does it by linking a seperate instrument, a Kestrel.

You can use the Sig app on your phone. Enter data, link it to your RF, then you don't need the phone anymore, just use RF to bring up range, elevation, and wind holds.

 

[JGRaider]

JGRaider - i've read all of the threads that mention rangefinding binos on here over the last while, and you seem super concerned about wind - to the point it appears to consume your every thought. We may need to start a gofundme to help you buy a kestrel so you can sleep easy at night.

The obvious reason for it is because it's the most important factor when shooting at distance.....wind....the voodoo. Elevation is the easy part.

 

[Bubblehide]

You can use the Sig app on your phone. Enter data, link it to your RF, then you don't need the phone anymore, just use RF to bring up range, elevation, and wind holds.

Yeah, but limited to 800 yards without a wind meter. You do not get wind holds without a wind meter at any range, but you can input your best guess. Dude, you obviously do not own any of this equipment, and you should stay in your lane.

 

[JGRaider]

Yeah, but limited to 800 yards without a wind meter. You do not get wind holds without a wind meter at any range, but you can input your best guess. Dude, you obviously do not own any of this equipment, and you should stay in your lane.

I get wind holds (800 max as you say), via the Sig app, through the 2200 BDX app, based on data input, exactly as I said. Now tell me again how this isn't correct. The Kilo 3000 BDX works the same way.

406, I've culled more big game animals than you've ever shot at. I know full well what works, and what doesn't.

 

[Bubblehide]

I get wind holds (800 max as you say), via the Sig app, through the 2200 BDX app, based on data input, exactly as I said. Now tell me again how this isn't correct. The Kilo 3000 BDX works the same way.

406, I've culled more big game animals than you've ever shot at. I know full well what works, and what doesn't.

lol, to funny dude

 

[dryflyelk]

JG -
No rangefinder has a built in wind meter. The Leica can pair with a Kestrel, which would be nice if you're a long range shooter or competitor. That's the best you're going to find.
As you mentioned, the Sig allows you to input the wind data manually into their app. You still have to know it, though. So...you have to have a kestrel. Then you have to get your phone out and manually put that info into the phone, then run the calculations, then adjust for windage, then shoot. Every time you shoot at a different range or the wind changes, you'd have to manually enter that info into the calculator. It's not a one time thing like you suggest.
There are a thousand shooting apps or calculators that do the same thing. There's nothing special about Sig's.
You talk like having a place to input the windage manually is a deal breaker.

 

[JGRaider]

OK 406, since you have all of this figured out. Answer two things:

1. How does the Leica 3000 or 3200 provide wind holds?

2. Tell me how the Sig BDX RF's and RF/bino does not do what I said?
" I get wind holds (800 max as you say), via the Sig app, through the 2200 BDX app, based on data input, exactly as I said. Now tell me again how this isn't correct. The Kilo 3000 BDX works the same way."

 

[Bubblehide]

OK 406, since you have all of this figured out. Answer two things:

1. How does the Leica 3000 or 3200 provide wind holds?

2. Tell me how the Sig BDX RF's and RF/bino does not do what I said?
" I get wind holds (800 max as you say), via the Sig app, through the 2200 BDX app, based on data input, exactly as I said. Now tell me again how this isn't correct. The Kilo 3000 BDX works the same way."

dryflyelk provided your answer.
Like I said, you sound like you do not even own one of these, let alone know how to use it.

 

[JGRaider]

JG -
No rangefinder has a built in wind meter. The Leica can pair with a Kestrel, which would be nice if you're a long range shooter or competitor. That's the best you're going to find.
As you mentioned, the Sig allows you to input the wind data manually into their app. You still have to know it, though. So...you have to have a kestrel. Then you have to get your phone out and manually put that info into the phone, then run the calculations, then adjust for windage, then shoot. Every time you shoot at a different range or the wind changes, you'd have to manually enter that info into the calculator. It's not a one time thing like you suggest.
There are a thousand shooting apps or calculators that do the same thing. There's nothing special about Sig's.
You talk like having a place to input the windage manually is a deal breaker.

First of all none of my thoughts were NOT a personal attack or anything close to that regarding you. Yes sir I understand all of that, and I wasn't representing that any bino/rf had a built in wind meter. I was making the point that there were no wind hold readouts period in the Leicas, unlike the Sig which will spit out the holds via the Sig app, as you just pointed out. I'm sure you well understand that if your input a 10mph crosswind, and can do simple math based on wind direction, you can at least get a reasonable "guesstimate" as to wind holds via the Sig. The Leica won't do any of that. I also wasn't representing that there was anything special out of the Sig, just that Lieca had nothing to offer in these high $$$ bino/RF's in that regard. That's it.

All I ever hear about these bino /rf units is how much easier and faster it is to use one unit, and not two separate ones. My point, once again, is that if you still have to figure out wind holds anyway, it's not that convenient, fast, or easy, but it's not that big of a deal if you're sitting at the bench. In the field hunting it very much is. The Leica 2200 I had wouldn't work past 200 yds when the temps got near freezing and below, so I sent it back.

 

[JGRaider]

dryflyelk provided your answer.
Like I said, you sound like you do not even own one of these, let alone know how to use it.

I didn't ask dryfly, I asked 406. You wanna take a stab at it? Nice dodge though.

I've owned the Leica 2200, which sucked, the Sig Kilo3000, Nikon Laserforce, the Sig BDX 2200, Swaro 8x30. Leupold TBX 1200 and 1600. I currently use a 10x50 Swaro SV and 2200 BDX which runs circles around the Leica 2200 I had.