My thoughts on Long-range shooting/hunting

[Megalodon]

It's not complicated, I don't really see how you're getting hung up on the 100 yards versus 1/3rd. I really kinda thought your reply to me was just being funny.

It should be common sense looking at the graphs in the links I provided. In any situation where the area between the shooter and the target is broken into equal segments, and the wind is constant, the segment nearest the shooter has the highest impact on the bullets ultimate POI. If you want to do 100 yard segments, then the first 100 is the most important. If you want to look at 3rds or 4ths, the first is the most important.

Seems a little silly to say "well aktshually on a 1000 yard shot the last 35,999" are more important than the 1st inch from the muzzle, hur hur" doesn't it???

 

[JF_Idaho]

It's not complicated, I don't really see how you're getting hung up on the 100 yards versus 1/3rd. I really kinda thought your reply to me was just being funny.

It should be common sense looking at the graphs in the links I provided. In any situation where the area between the shooter and the target is broken into equal segments, and the wind is constant, the segment nearest the shooter has the highest impact on the bullets ultimate POI. If you want to do 100 yard segments, then the first 100 is the most important. If you want to look at 3rds or 4ths, the first is the most important.

Seems a little silly to say "well aktshually on a 1000 yard shot the last 35,999" are more important than the 1st inch from the muzzle, hur hur" doesn't it???

The problem is changing it into equal segments is moving the goal posts

By Litz's own writing the 2nd 3rd is only slightly less important than the 1st 3rd.

The original premise was that the "at the muzzle/100yds/1st 3rd" has more effect than the rest of the flight path, which is not true.

 

[WW2 Buff]

I’ve been long-range hunting (over 40 years) and have been a 1000-yard completive shooter for a number of years and winning a IBS/NBRSA national championship for 1000 yard score and two state championships for smallest group.



First off to be successful you must have excellent equipment to do the job, that’s fairly easy to do if you have the money to buy what is required. In my opinion the weakest link in the chain is the scope, buy the best you can afford, the rifle can sometimes be purchased of the shelf, manufactured by several commercial rifle makers. That being said in my opinion if you’re going to spend your hard-earned dollars, go to a qualified gun builder and have a custom barrel chambered in your favorite caliber. That will take care of part of the equation.

Now for the hard part is acquiring the skill set. I really don’t know how to tell you how to go about it, other than I practice when the conditions are bad at the longest range I can 300 to 500 yards or so would be good. Shorter ranges can work but not be as dramatic of changes as the longer ranges. I should mention quality ammunition is of major importance. (Good scope + good rifle + bad ammo = bad groups.) When shooting in windy conditions I pay close attention to the wind in front of the rifle, when the bullet exits the barrel gravity and wind acts on it immediately and stars to pull it down and in the direction of the wind and I think it effects it the most at that moment a few thousands of deflections at the muzzle can be huge at distance. I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there.

In all honesty while having many one shot kills at distance, I’ve also had my share of near misses on the first shot, but if having an opportunity for a second shot I more often than not make a clean kill. In the many years of hunting long-range, I never crippled one and have it get away. On rare occasions I did have to shoot an animal again not wanting to let it bleed-out and suffer.

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS but this is what works for me.

I didn’t read thru every post but what is your max shot you would take on game?

 

[WJM1000]

Hard question to answer. It would depend on several different factors, weather conditions, animals size, what it was doing, feeding, bedded down, who was my spotter, if legal and I can take a sighter shot and what rifle I was using. If I had my 338/408 pushing a 300 grain bullet at 3250FPS and everything was in my favor 1600 to 1700 yards. I've never shot at an anamal over 1350 yards. I've shot at steel targets 18" in diameter at one mile and hit it the first three out of five times until conditions got me. In all honesty 1300/1400 yards is my cutoff point if conditions are perfect.

 

[huntnful]

I seriously think the whole situation of OPPOSING winds are various points and yardages is overstated and over analyzed. It just is not that common. Not that it doesn’t exist. It just isn’t the norm.

However, increasing and decreasing winds, from the same direction, across a longer distance and over different terrain is definitely common.

If it’s 5mph at the shooter, but you’re slightly sheltered and it’s likely 10 MPH across the canyon, you better hold for 10 MPH.

If it’s 10 MPH at the shooter, but the bullet path is slightly sheltered, you better just hold for 10 MPH hahaha.

Get to a yardage that your coarsely adjusted wind call still lands in the vitals and you’ll be alright.

Great post to the OP by the way

 

[Formidilosus]

I seriously think the whole situation of OPPOSING winds are various points and yardages is overstated and over analyzed. It just is not that common. Not that it doesn’t exist. It just isn’t the norm.

Depends on where you are- it is very common in certain places.

 

[huntnful]

Depends on where you are- it is very common in certain places.

Common opposing winds in certain places, but the places themselves are rare from what I’ve experienced. Some people act like every draw and every valley has some 10 MPH opposing directional wind change every 100 yards and needs crazy assessments and calculations. It gets brought up all the time, in theory, to make it seem like it’s an every scenario type of issue lol.

I’ve personally only seen it when there’s still a thermal down draft along the shaded face (shooters position) but the valley has a slight directional wind going the opposite way that isn’t felt by the shooter.

You shoot way more than I do, especially in mountainous terrain though.

At the recent S2H, how many times did you have to hold the opposite direction, than the wind direction that was felt at the shooter? 10% of the time? Genuinely curious how common it is across a realistically broad spectrum of environments and terrain. I just don’t see it that often.

 

[Formidilosus]

Common opposing winds in certain places, but the places themselves are rare from what I’ve experienced. Some people act like every draw and every valley has some 10 MPH opposing directional wind change every 100 yards and needs crazy assessments and calculations. It gets brought up all the time, in theory, to make it seem like it’s an every scenario type of issue lol.

I haven’t seen people discuss it at length I guess.

At the recent S2H, how many times did you have to hold the opposite direction, than the wind direction that was felt at the shooter? 10% of the time?

Oh, half of the targets or close to.

On this one there was an 8-12 mph left to right wind at the shooter, yet the hold was right 1 to 2 mils, at the 494 yard target.



This one there was a 12-18 mph wind right to left at the shooter, yet the target needed a left .5 mil hold to hit at 550’ish yards-



This valley had multiple slots with very odd winds- the entirety of the opposite ridge was a wind hold consistent with the shooters position- except for a few openings, which required a totally opposite wind hold, or a center hold to hit.

Genuinely curious how common it is across a realistically broad spectrum of environments and terrain. I just don’t see it that often.

Broken canyon country with multiple draws it is quite common.

 

[huntnful]

I haven’t seen people discuss it at length I guess.




Oh, half of the targets or close to.

On this one there was an 8-12 mph left to right wind at the shooter, yet the hold was right 1 to 2 mils, at the 494 yard target.
View attachment 728036


This one there was a 12-18 mph wind right to left at the shooter, yet the target needed a left .5 mil hold to hit at 550’ish yards-
View attachment 728037


This valley had multiple slots with very odd winds- the entirety of the opposite ridge was a wind hold consistent with the shooters position- except for a few openings, which required a totally opposite wind hold, or a center hold to hit.
View attachment 728038





Broken canyon country with multiple draws it is quite common.

Holy hell. Those are some MAJOR wind changes across terrain! Opposing winds strong enough to combat an 18 MPH wind at the shooter is definitely nothing I’ve ever seen haha. Clearly I just don’t shoot enough in terrain like that. Appreciate the thorough feedback as always. I’d love to do the course next year if they schedule one that isn’t during scouting season haha. Killing big deer is much easier than finding them. So I just had to be realistic with my time. But I love following along with that thread and seeing the feedback!

 

[2-Stix]

Common opposing winds in certain places, but the places themselves are rare from what I’ve experienced. Some people act like every draw and every valley has some 10 MPH opposing directional wind change every 100 yards and needs crazy assessments and calculations. It gets brought up all the time, in theory, to make it seem like it’s an every scenario type of issue lol.

I’ve personally only seen it when there’s still a thermal down draft along the shaded face (shooters position) but the valley has a slight directional wind going the opposite way that isn’t felt by the shooter.

You shoot way more than I do, especially in mountainous terrain though.

At the recent S2H, how many times did you have to hold the opposite direction, than the wind direction that was felt at the shooter? 10% of the time? Genuinely curious how common it is across a realistically broad spectrum of environments and terrain. I just don’t see it that often.

The range I shoot at is 1000 yards. Every time I am there we have opposing winds. Attached is the photo of it. I think it is very common if the topos are set up with fingers and draws in and out of the shooting lane. The flags you see are all at 100 years apart. The hillside starts at 600 and climbs.

 

[king402]

I’ve been long-range hunting (over 40 years) and have been a 1000-yard completive shooter for a number of years and winning a IBS/NBRSA national championship for 1000 yard score and two state championships for smallest group.



First off to be successful you must have excellent equipment to do the job, that’s fairly easy to do if you have the money to buy what is required. In my opinion the weakest link in the chain is the scope, buy the best you can afford, the rifle can sometimes be purchased of the shelf, manufactured by several commercial rifle makers. That being said in my opinion if you’re going to spend your hard-earned dollars, go to a qualified gun builder and have a custom barrel chambered in your favorite caliber. That will take care of part of the equation.

Now for the hard part is acquiring the skill set. I really don’t know how to tell you how to go about it, other than I practice when the conditions are bad at the longest range I can 300 to 500 yards or so would be good. Shorter ranges can work but not be as dramatic of changes as the longer ranges. I should mention quality ammunition is of major importance. (Good scope + good rifle + bad ammo = bad groups.) When shooting in windy conditions I pay close attention to the wind in front of the rifle, when the bullet exits the barrel gravity and wind acts on it immediately and stars to pull it down and in the direction of the wind and I think it effects it the most at that moment a few thousands of deflections at the muzzle can be huge at distance. I also look at the conditions along the bullets path that can counteract or add to what’s happening at the muzzle and I’ll adjust accordingly. I don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening at the target except for light conditions, because the bullet is already there.

In all honesty while having many one shot kills at distance, I’ve also had my share of near misses on the first shot, but if having an opportunity for a second shot I more often than not make a clean kill. In the many years of hunting long-range, I never crippled one and have it get away. On rare occasions I did have to shoot an animal again not wanting to let it bleed-out and suffer.

I’ll probably have a lot of blow-back on this and maybe called BS but this is what works for me.

I’m finding similar results. The more I shoot the more I know my equipment. Scope quality is huge and so is consistent, quality ammo!

 

[rileybassman]

I seriously think the whole situation of OPPOSING winds are various points and yardages is overstated and over analyzed. It just is not that common. Not that it doesn’t exist. It just isn’t the norm.

However, increasing and decreasing winds, from the same direction, across a longer distance and over different terrain is definitely common.

If it’s 5mph at the shooter, but you’re slightly sheltered and it’s likely 10 MPH across the canyon, you better hold for 10 MPH.

If it’s 10 MPH at the shooter, but the bullet path is slightly sheltered, you better just hold for 10 MPH hahaha.

Get to a yardage that your coarsely adjusted wind call still lands in the vitals and you’ll be alright.

Great post to the OP by the way

I was out shooting yesterday and ran into it - it was a somewhat mild day, but terrain can do weird things. The 1k shots had to hold left 1.5-2 minutes, 1150 was dead on, 1400 had to hold right 1.5-2 minutes. The same canyon had different wind profiles in multiple places... one spot a creek was draining in, one spot 2 fingers converge etc. My half of the canyon had wind that you could feel blowing right to left, but downrange was opposite. Very interesting and makes for some good practice.

 

[huntnful]

I was out shooting yesterday and ran into it - it was a somewhat mild day, but terrain can do weird things. The 1k shots had to hold left 1.5-2 minutes, 1150 was dead on, 1400 had to hold right 1.5-2 minutes. The same canyon had different wind profiles in multiple places... one spot a creek was draining in, one spot 2 fingers converge etc. My half of the canyon had wind that you could feel blowing right to left, but downrange was opposite. Very interesting and makes for some good practice.

Awesome! Those are some long bombs too!!