My Summary of the “groups to small” “painless load dev” and Shoot2Hunt

[Warmsy]

Overall, that is a good summery. For the above, that is correct. Other than barrel mirage, if the barrel is properly stress relieved and the rifle is assembled correctly there is no difference in cold, warm, or hot bore shots or groups. If the barrel isn’t properly stress relieved, or if the rifle isn’t assembled correctly that is a legit problem and you want to know that- it needs to be addressed.

A rifle that doesn’t shoot into the same cone as it warms up as it does when it is “cold” (and why is it always the first three shots are ok, but magically it’s the fourth that causes problems?) needs to be fixed.

So if my first 2-3 shoes are really good, and then start going all over the place, what exactly is it that needs to be fixed? I'm not the best shot, but my 30-06 gives me more trouble than any other rifle. I epoxy bedded it and that helped a lot, but I only get a few shots until I get frustrated and quit.

 

[jfk69]

UPDATE: I have my new barrel from CarbonSix. I have deviated a bit from what I understand is the "ideal" path:

1. I want the 168 LRX as the bullet. I choose Ramshot Magnum as the powder. I found Hogdon load data for that combo, with a Max Load of 70.7. For this bullet, I am looking at 2900 fps as the goal for distance I want.
2. I loaded 70.7 and shot it. No pressure, but velocity was WAY too low (2700 ish).
3. I then decided to deviate from "ideal" and walk a ladder to see if I could get to the velocity I wanted. I loaded 71.2, 71.7, 72.2 and shot those. No pressure and 72.2 was 2832 (getting there, but not what I wanted)
4. I then wanted to get a "base accuracy" and shot a box of 180 ELDM Factory. This essentially gave me a baseline of 1.75 MOA (hunter+rifle+load) for 2 10 shot groups. Base is now set for any use outside of California
5. I then went back to "ladder" and 72.7, 73.2, 73.7, 74.2 ... No Pressure (no bolt lift, no ejector marks, no flat primers). 74.2 got to 2918, so now I have a combo that meets my minimuns. NOTE: The fact that I am almost 4g over the book max of Hogden does have me questioning things. Not sure if I am pushing it too much, but because of seeming lack of pressure, I am going to try it. @Formidilosus is this a dumb thing?
6. I have now loaded 10 168 LRX @ 74.2g Ramshot Magnum (ADG, CCI 250) @ 3.20. I will shoot a group of 10 (actually 2 of 5 same POA) and see if as good or better than the 1.75MOA with the 180 ELDM. If I get that, I will call it "good enough" and load that and start practicing. If not, I'll drop 1g and try another 10.
7. I am also going to shoot a box of 175 ELDX (4 groups of 5, same POA) and see if that is any better than the 180 ELDM. This again is more of determining what "factory" load I can use out of Cali if needed and what the limitations will be.

As a reminder: Tikka w/ 20" C6 Barrel.

FWIW, in support of @Formidilosus comment above, I have a load that is 4.2 grains over book max in my .280. It still is about 50fps below the book velocity, but it’s super accurate (for that rifle) so I’ve used it for 20 years. Keep an eye on things, but I’d say you’re okay.

 

[philcox]

So if my first 2-3 shoes are really good, and then start going all over the place, what exactly is it that needs to be fixed? I'm not the best shot, but my 30-06 gives me more trouble than any other rifle. I epoxy bedded it and that helped a lot, but I only get a few shots until I get frustrated and quit.

From what I have ascertained, it could be that the gun is supper accurate, and after 2-3 you get Mirage or Shooter Fatigue *OR* you just happen to get lucky and the first 2-3 shots you "remember" are the good ones, and the ones that are not tight, you subconsciously ignore. Best way to see if the gun is nails would be to shoot 10-20 shots (in groups of 2-3 over maybe multiple days or with plenty of cool for you and the mirage) on the same target with same POA, and see what that group shows you. If it is tight, then you know it is fatigue or mirage, if not, then it is likely selective memory ... but I am am newbie, and may understand this wrong.

 

[Warmsy]

From what I have ascertained, it could be that the gun is supper accurate, and after 2-3 you get Mirage or Shooter Fatigue *OR* you just happen to get lucky and the first 2-3 shots you "remember" are the good ones, and the ones that are not tight, you subconsciously ignore. Best way to see if the gun is nails would be to shoot 10-20 shots (in groups of 2-3 over maybe multiple days or with plenty of cool for you and the mirage) on the same target with same POA, and see what that group shows you. If it is tight, then you know it is fatigue or mirage, if not, then it is likely selective memory ... but I am am newbie, and may understand this wrong.

It's definitely not selective memory. When they're off they're way off.

Yeah that's a good idea I'll try shooting the same target over several 3 shot groups.

 

[Harvey_NW]

It's definitely not selective memory. When they're off they're way off.

Yeah that's a good idea I'll try shooting the same target over several 3 shot groups.

It sounds like it might be random distribution where a couple land within a reasonable distance and then the cone starts to rear its ugly head. The rifle just may not like the combo. Larger sample sizes will help you weed out the weak link. Repeatability is key, both in your testing methods, and results.

 

[Marbles]

So if my first 2-3 shoes are really good, and then start going all over the place, what exactly is it that needs to be fixed? I'm not the best shot, but my 30-06 gives me more trouble than any other rifle. I epoxy bedded it and that helped a lot, but I only get a few shots until I get frustrated and quit.

Shooter fatigue, mirage, or a bad barrel that is not properly stress relieved and does not like to heat up.

 

[philcox]

Update: I have a load that works for me:
- 67.5g RL26 168LRX @2975, MR .45, SD 7.8, 1.62 MOA (10 shot group)

HOWEVER, RL26 is like finding unicorns! So I am going to see if 66.5g H4831SC works. That load actually worked better (group size) in my old barrel, but hard bolt lift. I’ll load one up and see if similar with new barrel, then go about finding RL26, if not, I’ll load up 10 and see how it compares with velocity and hit ES.

Once I get this load selected, then it’s time to practice (

)

 

[philcox]

H4831SC did not perform as well.

67.5g RL26 3.20 OAL 168 LRX is what I will go with.

 

[sveltri]

H4831SC did not perform as well.

67.5g RL26 3.20 OAL 168 LRX is what I will go with.

Do you have any H1000 or N570 to try?

 

[philcox]

Do you have any H1000 or N570 to try?

Yep. Tried H1000, RL 26 better group and velocity. No N570