Muzzleloader accuracy

ChaseH

FNG
Joined
Oct 22, 2022
Messages
13

I am hoping to hear from some of you with experience. I was actually thinking about getting a CVA Accura as my first muzzleloader. After watching this video however I’m having serious second thoughts. I plan to shoot open sights which whatever I buy in order to keep me legal in states that don’t allow scopes.
Is the video probably accurate in showing the accuracy difference in the more expensive guns? Is the Accura that much worse? The Paramount Pro is more than twice the price of the Accura but maybe it’s worth it to save a little longer?
Thank you in advance!
 

nobody

WKR
Joined
Sep 15, 2020
Messages
1,767
In our family, we shoot scoped CVA Optimas, which are mechanically identical to the Accuras. They're not F-Class accurate at distance, but they've never cost us a kill. Furthest kill with a muzzy we've had was my buck last year at 260 yards on a steep downhill quartering away shot. I was shooting seated with my gun (A Winchester Apex, predecessor to the Optima/Accura Line before Winchester Blackpowder division became CVA) rested across the top of my pack, and had about a 6 inch window to hit and I hit right where I needed to.

FWIW, we shoot 100 grain equivalent of Triple 7 pellets (2 pellets) behind a Hornady 250 Grain SST and a Magnum 209 Primer (primarily the Winchester variety). I've not grouped the muzzy for a couple years, but it shoots inside 2 inches at 100 from a sandbag and bench. Again, it's not a match rifle, but for a big bore super ballistically inferior projectile moving at 2000 FPS, it's plenty accurate on game. I wouldn't get caught up in needing one of the new high dollar rigs. Save the money, pick up an Optima or Accura, and spend the rest on tags.
 
Last edited:

Westhunt

FNG
Joined
Mar 19, 2023
Messages
50
Just watched the video. It's a cool video showing what different setups can do. But as far as a fair comparison, it was garbage. They used different calibers, different bullets, different powder, different primers, and different shooters. Of course there will be differences. If they wanted to do a more fair comparison, they need to have as many factors the same and shoot it through a vice. That being said, I shoot the Accura LR-X .45 with BH209 88gr by weight with the powerbelt ELR. I hold a 3-inch group at 200 yards and dropped a buck at 340 this year. If you are planning to shoot open sight, all of these guns will shoot far beyond the capabilities of your eyes. Pick a gun in your budget and spend the extra money to develop an accurate load and practice.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

Antares

WKR
Joined
Jan 13, 2021
Messages
1,705
Location
Alaska
I just went through a similar decision and ended up getting an Accura MR-X. Points that I considered:

- Scopes. Alaska does not allow scopes. Do I need a super accurate mz if I can't even put a scope on it?
- Weight. The Paramount is a pig. Like 10 pounds or something. The Accura is much lighter and I hunt in the mountains so that makes a difference to me.
- Price. As you noted, the Accura is half the price of the Paramount. I think I got mine for under $500.
- Primers. The Paramount wants large rifle primers. Good luck finding those. The 209s that Accura wants are easier for me to find.
- Powder. The best accuracy from the Paramount seems to come from BH209. Have you looked at the price of that stuff? I bought a bunch of IMR pellets for my Accura at a reasonable price.

I just plan on keeping my shots inside 150 yards and go from there. I feel like I need a better set up, I can always upgrade in the future. This is my first mz, so I'm just dipping my toes in the pool instead of jumping straight in with higher end set up.
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,487
I shoot a scoped Optima and it holds minute of dead deer to 350 and 400 is doable. 100 volume of BH, CCI 209M and 300 grain SST.

I just picked up an open sight Optima and took it out for the first time Saturday. It was just trying different things to see how it would do and involved zero tracking. Just shooting for fun.

90 grains of Pyrodex, 240 grain XTP and Federal 209A. I hit that deer vital sized rock 2 out of 3 times at 170 yards.

I personally really like the Optimas.
 

wmr89

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 26, 2020
Messages
273
Location
Utah
If you are planning to shoot open sight, all of these guns will shoot far beyond the capabilities of your eyes.
100% agree. The accuracy displayed in the video has almost nothing to do with the actual rifle being shot. My scoped CVA Wolf can easily shoot groups at 100 yards that would compete with the pricey guns in the video. Most modern muzzleloaders will out shoot the average open sight shooter's ability. A good sight, a good load, and practice will be what determines your accuracy.
 

crrakcrrak

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Mar 6, 2019
Messages
114
I think you are at acceptable accuracy already except for the 400 yard shots. I have quite accurate MLs and I would even be quite hesitant about taking a shot at that distance.
 

Curmudgeon

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Oct 14, 2019
Messages
124
I posted this back in April. It could help influence your decision about a Paramount.


CVA

In recent months we have been receiving more and more feedback from frustrated CVA customers regarding finding components, specifically Blackhorn 209 powder, and large rifle primers. As a manufacturer, we feel we have a responsibility to offer products that our customers can enjoy and fully utilize in the field.
We are aware that there will still be smaller amounts of Blackhorn 209 powder showing up to a limited number of retailers, from time to time. However, we do not feel there is enough Blackhorn 209 powder being manufactured to keep up with the demand for the current Paramount users, along with the other muzzleloader users that choose to shoot Blackhorn 209 powder.
Instead of adding more frustration to our customers, we will be focusing on our other models of muzzleloaders and centerfire rifles at this time. Our team will be closely monitoring the Blackhorn 209 powder situation and will assess when it makes sense as a brand to restore production of the Paramount line of muzzleloaders. We appreciate your feedback and your understanding.
If you’re still looking to purchase a long range muzzleloader, there are currently a number of retailers that have the CVA Paramounts in stock. Because we want you to utilize your purchase, we want you to be aware that if you do so, the powder and large rifle primers may be much more difficult to find than in recent years.
We appreciate all of your support,
Team CVA
 

Rich M

WKR
Joined
Jun 14, 2017
Messages
5,050
Location
Orlando
a scoped optima 110 gr 777, 225 ftx in crush ribbed sabot and 209s. It will touch holes at 125 yds. Havent shot it further yet.
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,487
I think you are at acceptable accuracy already except for the 400 yard shots. I have quite accurate MLs and I would even be quite hesitant about taking a shot at that distance.
If you are referencing my post. If the conditions allow, I would take the shot at 400. I didnt say it was ideal, I said it was doable.
 
Last edited:

ENCORE

WKR
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Messages
600
Location
NE Michigan
If you are referencing my post. If the conditions allow, I would take the shot at 400. I didnt say it was ideal, I said it was doable.
You're running out of energy with the 300gr and 100grV.
My suggestion would be either increase the charge and gain energy, or keep it to nothing beyond 300yds.
Wind is your enemy at 400yds. You're also talking about a full second for the bullet to arrive at 400yds and if an animal moves even as your trigger breaks, you could very well have a bad hit.

Not saying you're not capable.....

1684353265865.png
 

CorbLand

WKR
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
6,487
You're running out of energy with the 300gr and 100grV.
My suggestion would be either increase the charge and gain energy, or keep it to nothing beyond 300yds.
Wind is your enemy at 400yds. You're also talking about a full second for the bullet to arrive at 400yds and if an animal moves even as your trigger breaks, you could very well have a bad hit.

Not saying you're not capable.....

View attachment 554798
I appreciate the table. Like I said, it is all contingent on conditions. 400 is not IDEAL but it is DOABLE.

The goal is to increase it to 110-115 and see if I can find a load it likes but I am working on another gun right now.
 
Last edited:

jwshunts

FNG
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
7
Location
Tyrone, PA
I think you are at acceptable accuracy already except for the 400 yard shots. I have quite accurate MLs and I would even be quite hesitant about taking a shot at that distance.
Do you feel you loose too much velocity? Why woukd you avoid at shot at 400?
 

Wrench

WKR
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
5,525
Location
WA
100% agree. The accuracy displayed in the video has almost nothing to do with the actual rifle being shot. My scoped CVA Wolf can easily shoot groups at 100 yards that would compete with the pricey guns in the video. Most modern muzzleloaders will out shoot the average open sight shooter's ability. A good sight, a good load, and practice will be what determines your accuracy.
They don't even need to be all that modern....Screenshot_20231102-145415_Gallery.jpgScreenshot_20231106-063121_Gallery.jpg

This rifle will flat shoot. I have video of slapping little gongs at 200 and have proven it to well into the 3's.

I use the wedge as a gauge block. I shoot a group at a known range and adjust the peep to match...then scribe a line and label the wedge. It works very well.

There is nothing fancy. Swiss, big lead bullets and a #11.....I guess you might say the gehmann iris is fancy.
 

Nykki

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Apr 12, 2020
Messages
127
Location
Anchorage
Nice rifle, I've been shooting a TC Hawken 50 for the last 40 years. 90 GR of ff Goex and a TC maxi works well on moose. I haven't shot over 200 yard with it for a number of years, still has the original sights and my old eyes ain't like they used to be.
 

JGS8163

FNG
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
20
We’ve killed 3 bucks with my Acura MRX. 307 yards was the furthest shot. 83 gr of BH209, 45 cal Powerbelt ELR . Very accurate setup. That load runs about 2230 mv.
 

Fatcamp

WKR
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
5,646
Location
Sodak
I'm in a 1X state, my eyes are the biggest issue. With a magnified scope my Optima shoots nice groups.

This video was stupid. Not a real comparison at all.
 
Top