MT High Preference Point Units.

[Airborne1]

I was going over 2019 regulations and looking at the 2018 draw statistics and came across a unit that had over 10,000 applications trying to get one of only 135 tags. Do these units with high applications and low tags have that much better elk numbers and or that many 330"+ bulls in there?

So I'll call this question ignorance of simply not knowing anything about the high point units and not having any points myself I am overly happy to just get a tag as a non resident in a general unit.

Would you guys rather save up for that long to spend it all on one unit? I don't possess that kind of patience and would rather go every year. Your thoughts?

 

[Riplip]

That's the beauty of the MT draw system, you can apply for one of the top LE units along with your elk or big game combo general tag. If you draw the general tag and not the LE you still get to go hunting and build points at the same time.

Montana uses bonus points for their LE units so theoretically the more points you have the greater your chance of drawing, however this is not always the case. If you look at last years drawing for the unit you are describing the 2 two NR tags went to 0 point holders. There were over 20+ applicants with 10 or more points that didn't draw. Even with max points for NR the odds were still only around 7%.

 

[sneaky]

I was going over 2019 regulations and looking at the 2018 draw statistics and came across a unit that had over 10,000 applications trying to get one of only 135 tags. Do these units with high applications and low tags have that much better elk numbers and or that many 330"+ bulls in there?

So I'll call this question ignorance of simply not knowing anything about the high point units and not having any points myself I am overly happy to just get a tag as a non resident in a general unit.

Would you guys rather save up for that long to spend it all on one unit? I don't possess that kind of patience and would rather go every year. Your thoughts?

The LE units are bonus points, the general tags are preference points. Like has already been said, you can apply for LE units and still draw a general tag if unsuccessful. If you're a NR don't plan on going every year though, it would be every other year or every 3 years with the way the odds are now.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Airborne1]

My apologies for my not using the correct term for LE units and bonus points, not preference points. I think I might just have to start throwing in for some of those high point areas just for shets and giggles.

But back to the main question, are these units worth the wait?

 

[Wapiti1]

The answer is yes, the age structure in those units is generally better in LE than general units. i.e. more mature bulls.

The populations may or may not be higher than a general unit since the LE units have a lot of cow tags available as well and are easy to draw. In some, you just need a general tag to shoot a cow or even a spike.

They are not necessarily easier hunts, in my experience. Just a better age class of bulls. Are they worth it? If you are going hunting anyway, might as well put in for them and see.

Jeremy

 

[Dos Perros]

I once did a regression analysis on all the type 1 elk tags in Wyoming to determine which units were under or over valued. For inputs I used: trophy potential (from GoHunt), % public land, 3 year harvest %, and the output was points needed to draw with 100% certainty. Then I ran the regression analysis and used the coefficients from each factor and put them back into each unit and used that to calculate what the unit "should" be worth in preference points. Generally, the lower point units were undervalued and the higher point units were overvalued, and the middle point units appropriately valued. I think the conclusion for me is: generally speaking I have a better chance of killing a big bull by hunting a lower end unit more than by hunting an upper end unit once.

 

[Airborne1]

So how would that work when applying? You apply for the general tag, and as a first choice put in for whatever unit with no bonus points (in my case)? If you do not get the permit you still have the same chance at the general combination tag right?

 

[Dos Perros]

You have to draw the general tag to even be in the permit draw.

 

[Airborne1]

I once did a regression analysis on all the type 1 elk tags in Wyoming to determine which units were under or over valued. For inputs I used: trophy potential (from GoHunt), % public land, 3 year harvest %, and the output was points needed to draw with 100% certainty. Then I ran the regression analysis and used the coefficients from each factor and put them back into each unit and used that to calculate what the unit "should" be worth in preference points. Generally, the lower point units were undervalued and the higher point units were overvalued, and the middle point units appropriately valued. I think the conclusion for me is: generally speaking I have a better chance of killing a big bull by hunting a lower end unit more than by hunting an upper end unit once.

Now this sounds very detailed and highly valuable in both knowledge and dollar amounts. That is a really effective way to get the most bang for your buck on points. I cant say I would be able to do just that. I think Montana's statistics are highly inaccurate to get a solid idea of what unit would give you that best value. But it would be interesting to see.

 

[Airborne1]

You have to draw the general tag to even be in the permit draw.

Ah yes that is right, forgot about that. Thanks. I would think I would have this down better after having hunted there for number of years already.

 

[Dos Perros]

Now this sounds very detailed and highly valuable in both knowledge and dollar amounts. That is a really effective way to get the most bang for your buck on points. I cant say I would be able to do just that. I think Montana's statistics are highly inaccurate to get a solid idea of what unit would give you that best value. But it would be interesting to see.

I kinda don't think it matters all that much. Granted I've only hunted on 6 out of state elk tags (three OTC, 1 limited entry, 1 general, and 1 leftover), but I had opportunities at 300"+ elk in every single one. Saw the biggest elk in the LE unit for sure, we I've seen 350" elk in general units, and some dudes killed a 340" bull in the leftover unit when I was there. What's between your ears is more important than what unit you are in, IMO of course. And I would concede that duh some units just don't produce B&C or bigger elk and if that's the goal the choices are more limited and that's probably why the math says higher point units are overvalued.

 

[Airborne1]

I am happy with any legal bull to be honest. Chasing LE units and points is not my thing. I was just curious on everyone's thoughts of these sought after places. Maybe one day I will put in for some bonus points, until then I will continue to be happy in my generals with some good success.

 

[Indian Summer]

You’ll never draw 380.

 

[Airborne1]

I mean someone will draw 380. And I dont apply for it. But i did just read a pretty interesting article about the 5 hardest draw units. When I do draw I'll be sure to let you know lol.

Tough Tags: Montana's 5 hardest elk permits to draw

Every year thousands of elk hunters throw their names in the hat for a special permit with dreams of hunting one of Montana’s limited draw units.

helenair.com

 

[ChiefMingo]

Good info on here. Obviously would love to eventually land a tag for a unit like 380, but very happy just getting to hunt with a general tag as a nonresident.