Moose mistaken for Elk

[kicker338]

I respect the self-report, and find it hard to censure another guy when I wasn't there.

Your kidding, don't you know the golden rule of hunting forums?? When someone screws up for what ever reason, your supposed to feed him or her to the wolves.

 

[sndmn11]

Depends on an individual's system of values I suppose. It's gonna vary from person to person.

A 10:1 ratio between consequences doesn't make a big man or respectable man to me. It makes a no-brainer decision on an act that no brains were used. If we want to curb poaching of any species, we have to stop giving poachers a pass and that includes the punishment and our acceptance of their actions.

 

[kicker338]

A 10:1 ratio between consequences doesn't make a big man or respectable man to me. It makes a no-brainer decision on an act that no brains were used. If we want to curb poaching of any species, we have to stop giving poachers a pass and that includes the punishment and our acceptance of their actions.

Interesting, how did poaching come in here ??? Poaching implies that a poacher would kill, season or no season without reguard to the law. From reading the news report this was certainly not the case.

 

[sndmn11]

Interesting, how did poaching come in here ??? Poaching implies that a poacher would kill, season or no season without reguard to the law. From reading the news report this was certainly not the case.

Yeah I think the law says you have to have a license. Maybe you read a different article, but the one I read the person did not have a moose license.

 

[kicker338]

Yeah I think the law says you have to have a license. Maybe you read a different article, but the one I read the person did not have a moose license.

Title of this thread, he wasn't hunting moose, was hunting elk and mistook the moose for an elk.

 

[sneaky]

Yeah I think the law says you have to have a license. Maybe you read a different article, but the one I read the person did not have a moose license.

Chill dude. Damn. You assume he knew there was a difference in the fines for self reporting and not. I guarantee he had no clue what the difference was, and probably still doesn't. He made a mistake, owned up to it, paid his fines and is getting crucified in the court of public opinion. I'm certainly not going to throw stones, you make canvas wall tents but live in a glass house.

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[MuleyFever]

That is what I was thinking. He may not have been a very knowledgeable hunter considering how this played out and ended in a dead moose. I am not sure how one can assume he knew what would happen, especially considering it is up to the wardern/courts. There is no automatic reduction if you self report but you hope for the best. Also, how can one assume he weighed his options as self reporting and getting a small fine or getting a big fine. How does one not consider that in his mind the options were to leave and get away with it or own up to the mistake and take whatever punishment comes?

 

[sndmn11]

Title of this thread, he wasn't hunting moose, was hunting elk and mistook the moose for an elk.

He tracked down a moose, observed it bedded for a period of time, intentionally aimed a rifle at and fired, from 300 yards, taking that the life of that moose. Without a license. All of those were intentional acts. The rifle didn't aim itself or accidentally discharge with the cross hairs in the right spot. When someone breaks the general rules of firearms safety and hunting safety BY CHOICE it is dumbfounding to see the get any respect from hunters. All he had to do was not pull that trigger. There is a species identification table a long with some rules in the brochure for big gaem hunting on page 9 http://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/RulesRegs/Brochure/BigGame/biggame.pdf There are signs all over the place out in the field as well. It is not like he missed an antler point restriction by an inch, orshot a grizzly while legally hunting black bears in a state that has no grizzlies, or shot a wolf while legally hunting coyote in a state with no wolves DNA confirms coyote hunter killed gray wolf in Kremmling last month - Denver7 TheDenverChannel.com. Choosing to shoot a firearm haphazardly is against the law for many reasons that all get summed up by having bad results Hunter who killed Colorado boy he mistook for elk gets prison time | Reuters I would imagine your argument there might be that "he wasn't hunting teenagers".......C'mon folks, it is an intentional and deliberate act to aim a firearm at vital organs and pull that trigger.

Chill dude. Damn. You assume he knew there was a difference in the fines for self reporting and not. I guarantee he had no clue what the difference was, and probably still doesn't. He made a mistake, owned up to it, paid his fines and is getting crucified in the court of public opinion. I'm certainly not going to throw stones, you make canvas wall tents but live in a glass house.

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I am glad you brought up my profession. Davis Tent donates six figures a year worth of items to various organizations and subsequent chapters that support hunting in general and specific species from Chukar to Elk. Poaching is a danger to all of those organizations' efforts and expenditures, and poachers should not get the respect of hunters.

It is common knowledge from Disney movies on up to real adult life that admitting to a violation of the law results in a less severe punishment in all but the most extreme of circumstances. Next time you talk to a Colorado Parks and Wildlife Officer, ask them about the amount pre-charge bargaining leeway they get from the District Attorney's Office. A trial on charges of illegal harvest, abandonment of a carcass, hunting without a license, etc is a negative thing for CPW because it runs the risk of finding an acquittal and eats up the investigative time of a much understaffed LE branch of CPW. This results in the practice of CPW Officers telling suspects that they could charge them with the above, or if they would plead guilty to a much lesser offense they will rite the summons to that. This practiced street level bargaining is vastly different than a typical criminal case where the DA's office negotiates a plea bargain. This is supported by the article explicitly stating he was charged with Careless Hunting, a low punishment offense, not that greater charges were reduced.

When faced with the consequences of an illegal act, choosing the lesser of two evils doesn't make a respectable person. The poacher already got that break, there is no reason that hunters should do the same and say anything positive about him.

 

[kicker338]

Geez sndmn you sure got a lot of info I missed in the news article link the OP put on this thread. I reread it found nothing about tracking down the moose, only that he spotted it close to dark about 300yds. away.

 

[Downeaster]

I feel so insignificant in the presence of such giants...

 

[Riles1050]

I would consider poaching leaving your house and heading to the woods with the intention to illegally kill an animal. From what I have read this is not what happened. He saw an animal he perceived was an elk, shot it, and then realized it was actually a moose. Absolutely ridiculous, egregious and irresponsible, but still a mistake. From what I have read he realized his mistake and reported it. The only way you are presented with two options and you take the lesser one is if he had been caught by someone and given two options. That has not been stated. He most likely had a third option which was walk away, say nothin and have zero material consequences. From what information I have read it appears that was an option and he did the right thing and owned up to his mistake. That is commendable. If someone caught him and forced him to self report obviously it’s a different story. However, that information has not been made available.


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[LandYacht]

I can’t imagine never extending grace to someone. While it seems to me the fine could have been stiffer in light of the cost of a moose license, I sure don’t think that he should not be commended for turning himself in.

There are a lot of people that would have walked away and never thought anything about it except that they might get caught.

The only thing that he could have done better post shot, from the information presented, would have been to field dress the moose.

It would be a very sad and depressing world to live in if we were never forgiven for our wrongs. This is exactly the type of post shot actions we should be applauding. If everyone was perfect nothing like this would ever happen, but none of us is perfect, and it’s what we do afterwards that shows courage or lack there of.


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[sndmn11]

Geez sndmn you sure got a lot of info I missed in the news article link the OP put on this thread. I reread it found nothing about tracking down the moose, only that he spotted it close to dark about 300yds. away.

Ummm the article says that he was hunting and he admitted he was hunting...chase, pursue, track, seek out. If he locates an animal he believes to be what he is hunting then that is intentional and by design. He waited for the animal to present a shot and he shot. What part about of that is accidental? Every part of that was 100% his choice and preventable without divine intervention.

I would consider poaching leaving your house and heading to the woods with the intention to illegally kill an animal. From what I have read this is not what happened. He saw an animal he perceived was an elk, shot it, and then realized it was actually a moose. Absolutely ridiculous, egregious and irresponsible, but still a mistake. From what I have read he realized his mistake and reported it. The only way you are presented with two options and you take the lesser one is if he had been caught by someone and given two options. That has not been stated. He most likely had a third option which was walk away, say nothin and have zero material consequences. From what information I have read it appears that was an option and he did the right thing and owned up to his mistake. That is commendable. If someone caught him and forced him to self report obviously it’s a different story. However, that information has not been made available.


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Illegally hunting a wild animal is the definition of poaching. What is the difference between waking up intending to kill a moose without a license, and deciding to do so on seeing the moose? They both result in a moose killed without a license. If a man sexually assaults a woman at a party, it still occurred whether he went to the party with that intention, saw the unexpected opportunity and took it, or misidentified who he was having relations with.

A commendable action would have been not taking a risky shot and potentially going home empty handed. This was not a surprise harvest, the poacher intended to kill the animal and accomplished that.

 

[Riles1050]

Ummm the article says that he was hunting and he admitted he was hunting...chase, pursue, track, seek out. If he locates an animal he believes to be what he is hunting then that is intentional and by design. He waited for the animal to present a shot and he shot. What part about of that is accidental? Every part of that was 100% his choice and preventable without divine intervention.



Illegally hunting a wild animal is the definition of poaching. What is the difference between waking up intending to kill a moose without a license, and deciding to do so on seeing the moose? They both result in a moose killed without a license. If a man sexually assaults a woman at a party, it still occurred whether he went to the party with that intention, saw the unexpected opportunity and took it, or misidentified who he was having relations with.

A commendable action would have been not taking a risky shot and potentially going home empty handed. This was not a surprise harvest, the poacher intended to kill the animal and accomplished that.

Alright...You obviously aren’t here for a discussion. You think you are right, and you’re not willing to objectively look at anyone else’s point of view. How you keep missing the simple point is beyond me. In case you are looking for a discussion, I’ll leave you with my last few points and you can go on with your life.
1. Your analogy absolutely sucks. And you aren’t worth talking to if you honestly believe killing the wrong large game animal, that lives in similar habitat and location, is anywhere near the same as sexually assaulting another human being.
2. You continue to ASSUME this man knew it was a moose and shot it anyway. You have zero proof of this, so stop acting like you know.
3. I hope when something goes wrong in your own life you aren’t judged with the same black and white unforgiving vision you are judging this man with. Otherwise you will be unemployed and unloved because everyone makes mistakes in life. Including you.



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[dtrkyman]

Maybe it was a Eurasian elk

Dude made a mistake, owned it and will be judged in a court of law. Sounds pretty good to me.

 

[MuleyFever]

1. Your analogy absolutely sucks. And you aren’t worth talking to if you honestly believe killing the wrong large game animal, that lives in similar habitat and location, is anywhere near the same as sexually assaulting another human being.

I was thinking the same thing. Also, don't forget that identifying a deer species but mistaking it as an elk is the same as mistaking a person for an elk.

 

[sndmn11]

Alright...You obviously aren’t here for a discussion. You think you are right, and you’re not willing to objectively look at anyone else’s point of view. How you keep missing the simple point is beyond me. In case you are looking for a discussion, I’ll leave you with my last few points and you can go on with your life.
1. Your analogy absolutely sucks. And you aren’t worth talking to if you honestly believe killing the wrong large game animal, that lives in similar habitat and location, is anywhere near the same as sexually assaulting another human being.
2. You continue to ASSUME this man knew it was a moose and shot it anyway. You have zero proof of this, so stop acting like you know.
3. I hope when something goes wrong in your own life you aren’t judged with the same black and white unforgiving vision you are judging this man with. Otherwise you will be unemployed and unloved because everyone makes mistakes in life. Including you.



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A lot of things went over your head. Objectively, he shot a moose without a license, that is poaching. Poaching is counter productive to conservation, and counter productive to legal hunting. Objectively, he failed to follow the rules of firearms safety and species identification; both of which are found in the regulation booklet. Objectively, he aimed his rifle at an animal and chose to pull the trigger. Objectively, there was nothing that forced or coerced him into doing so. Objectively, people in this thread have said that they respect the person, he acted courageously and commendable after breaking the law. I don't think that I need to include quotes.

At no point did I assume that he knew it was a moose or did I type anything out eluding to that. I stated that he intentionally found an animal to shoot and did so. He didn't get to the spot he was in through no action of his own, and the rifle did not shoot itself.

Subjectively, I think other hunters or even firearms enthusiasts praising him for anything during this incident is disturbing. You don't poach, period. If you are unable to hunt legally, you should not be getting a pat on the back from those who do. That is three threads in recent months on Rokslide where people have said positive things about those who poach. Following the very basic firearms safety rules would have prevented this, the same can be said for the young man who was killed a few years ago. Both incidents were caused by the same thing; a person intentionally fired their weapon without being sure of their target. I don't see how that can be disputed, and I think it is terrible that "fellow" hunters can be complimentary of any person who does that. That will not be curbed if folks are complimentary of anything in those types of incidents....I am sure you have read the "self-policing" theory being thrown around on here recently. Subjectively, I think that hunters complimenting poachers is damaging to the unity of hunters, the image of hunters, and the concept of conservation being a selling point of hunting. I think the same damage occurs for firearms enthusiasts when someone receives praise in an incident where they broke the rules of safely handling a firearm.

Speaking of looking at someone else's point of view, I think if you re-read what I have written in this thread, objectively as you suggest, you will find that I never stated anything about further punishment for him. I am writing against the folks on here who are complimentary of his actions, summed up in my paragraph above.

 

[sneaky]

A lot of things went over your head. Objectively, he shot a moose without a license, that is poaching. Poaching is counter productive to conservation, and counter productive to legal hunting. Objectively, he failed to follow the rules of firearms safety and species identification; both of which are found in the regulation booklet. Objectively, he aimed his rifle at an animal and chose to pull the trigger. Objectively, there was nothing that forced or coerced him into doing so. Objectively, people in this thread have said that they respect the person, he acted courageously and commendable after breaking the law. I don't think that I need to include quotes.

At no point did I assume that he knew it was a moose or did I type anything out eluding to that. I stated that he intentionally found an animal to shoot and did so. He didn't get to the spot he was in through no action of his own, and the rifle did not shoot itself.

Subjectively, I think other hunters or even firearms enthusiasts praising him for anything during this incident is disturbing. You don't poach, period. If you are unable to hunt legally, you should not be getting a pat on the back from those who do. That is three threads in recent months on Rokslide where people have said positive things about those who poach. Following the very basic firearms safety rules would have prevented this, the same can be said for the young man who was killed a few years ago. Both incidents were caused by the same thing; a person intentionally fired their weapon without being sure of their target. I don't see how that can be disputed, and I think it is terrible that "fellow" hunters can be complimentary of any person who does that. That will not be curbed if folks are complimentary of anything in those types of incidents....I am sure you have read the "self-policing" theory being thrown around on here recently. Subjectively, I think that hunters complimenting poachers is damaging to the unity of hunters, the image of hunters, and the concept of conservation being a selling point of hunting. I think the same damage occurs for firearms enthusiasts when someone receives praise in an incident where they broke the rules of safely handling a firearm.

Speaking of looking at someone else's point of view, I think if you re-read what I have written in this thread, objectively as you suggest, you will find that I never stated anything about further punishment for him. I am writing against the folks on here who are complimentary of his actions, summed up in my paragraph above.

"He tracked down a moose, observed it bedded for a period of time, intentionally aimed a rifle at and fired, from 300 yards, taking that the life of that moose."

You can't even remember what you wrote yourself, so that must have gone over your head as well. No one here is supporting poaching, but no one here is perfect either. We've all made mistakes, it's how you react to those mistakes that matters. You are argumentative on every thread I've seen you contribute to, it's a bad look and it gets tiresome after a while.

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[Muttly]

Here's my two cent, in Canadian currency, cause it s Monday.
Yeah, I think everybody get,s that the guy f":##
up.
Question then becomes, whether or not a guy is going to learn from his mistakes. Most do.
Some take longer than others. I rarely make the same mistake twice, but I have had some doozies.
Truth is there is a lot more value in examining the details ( also known in some circles as an incident autopsy ), taking a good hard look at what was done wrong, what could, and probably should, have been done differently.
And then applying that knowledge to what we are doing.
And as far me judging him or not, it,s not my job, and odds are I ain't qualified to do it.

 

[sndmn11]

"He tracked down a moose, observed it bedded for a period of time, intentionally aimed a rifle at and fired, from 300 yards, taking that the life of that moose."

You can't even remember what you wrote yourself, so that must have gone over your head as well. No one here is supporting poaching, but no one here is perfect either. We've all made mistakes, it's how you react to those mistakes that matters. You are argumentative on every thread I've seen you contribute to, it's a bad look and it gets tiresome after a while.

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What part about that is false? He was hunting, found his prey, and killed it. It happened to be a moose. If you believe that it was 100% a mis-identification, then you would believe that he had absolutely no idea that the animal was a moose and was hunting it like an elk. The other two possibilities are that he knew it was a moose before he shot, or that he unknowingly set his rifle down and it discharged on its own making a 300 yard shot. The last option is a powerball win, and the second option seems irrelevant with the shared belief that at the time he pulled the trigger he thought he was shooting an elk.

Enlighten me on how a person goes hunting, finds what they are looking for, shoots it, and it wasn't intentional?

Complimenting poachers or explaining away their actions are both forms of support. I am not going to do either for poachers and will argue against it every time it comes up. You are welcome to disagree with me if it is not too tiresome but I am not worried at all if you feel it is a bad look because taking a stand against poaching is a good thing.