Moose meat and water question

[JPD350]

I know when you submerge meat in water to cool it off you put the meat in waterproof bags to keep water contaminates from getting on the meat.
When you kill a moose and he dies in a marsh or river how do you keep the meat from being contaminated by the water, especially in a stagnate marshy situation?

 

[Eagle]

One thing you want to avoid is putting warm meat in a bag and then in water, as that will cause condensation and the meat will have water on it while submerged which will aid bacteria growth. Before submerging in water, the meat needs to be as cool as you can get it to keep condensation from occuring and making the meat wet.

As for the other half of the question, I have no idea.

 

[Larry Bartlett]

JPD350, I disagree with Eagle on this one. The purpose of using the meat immersion method is to rapidly cool the meat down. If the meat is already "as cool as you can get it" then you don't need to use the immersion method. Just my two cents.

Eagle, the condensation you refer to is accurate. But, condensation and blood drainage will cause your meat to get wet inside the plastic bag, regardless of whether it is cool or warm. The plastic bag just helps keep sediments, water contaminants, and fish or critters from eating the meat. In the larger picture, meat that been soaked inside a plastic bag with immersion therapy is doing better wet and cool than it would otherwise be warm and dry.

Once the meat is cooled properly inside the bag underwater, meat is removed and hanged or stacked onto shore debris to allow drainage to fall off the meat and the air to help dry the surface. After it dries, the meat can be replaced inside fresh game bags.

But, JPD's question was about boggy stagnant water source as he finds the bull, before and during butchering. The best way to go about this is to cut a bunch of willow or alder brush and pile it next to the carcass so that when weight is applied to the brush pile it doesn't sink, on the side you'll peel the hide toward (i.e., pile near the belly of you skin from the spine). The hide is peeled off the carcass and then laid down over the brush pile to provide a platform or makeshift tarp where meat is laid before it's bagged. You might consider making two piles, one on each side of the carcass and then split the hid about mid section of the belly, filleting it off the carcass with half going toward the belly pile and the other half laid on the spine pile. This should give you good protection from the water.

But, you'll undoubtedly get meat wet in the process at some point. The best thing you can do is rinse it off in a river or clean water source if the source water was stagnant. Then, spray the surface with a strong mixture of citric acid wash (2-oz powder to 1-qt water). This will retard bacterial growth while you transport the meat to your butcher. Reapply the citric acid wash every other day for best results.

Hope this helps,

larry

 

[Nick Muche]

Good information Larry!

 

[Eagle]

JPD350, I disagree with Eagle on this one. The purpose of using the meat immersion method is to rapidly cool the meat down. If the meat is already "as cool as you can get it" then you don't need to use the immersion method. Just my two cents.

Eagle, the condensation you refer to is accurate. But, condensation and blood drainage will cause your meat to get wet inside the plastic bag, regardless of whether it is cool or warm. The plastic bag just helps keep sediments, water contaminants, and fish or critters from eating the meat. In the larger picture, meat that been soaked inside a plastic bag with immersion therapy is doing better wet and cool than it would otherwise be warm and dry.

Once the meat is cooled properly inside the bag underwater, meat is removed and hanged or stacked onto shore debris to allow drainage to fall off the meat and the air to help dry the surface. After it dries, the meat can be replaced inside fresh game bags.

But, JPD's question was about boggy stagnant water source as he finds the bull, before and during butchering. The best way to go about this is to cut a bunch of willow or alder brush and pile it next to the carcass so that when weight is applied to the brush pile it doesn't sink, on the side you'll peel the hide toward (i.e., pile near the belly of you skin from the spine). The hide is peeled off the carcass and then laid down over the brush pile to provide a platform or makeshift tarp where meat is laid before it's bagged. You might consider making two piles, one on each side of the carcass and then split the hid about mid section of the belly, filleting it off the carcass with half going toward the belly pile and the other half laid on the spine pile. This should give you good protection from the water.

But, you'll undoubtedly get meat wet in the process at some point. The best thing you can do is rinse it off in a river or clean water source if the source water was stagnant. Then, spray the surface with a strong mixture of citric acid wash (2-oz powder to 1-qt water). This will retard bacterial growth while you transport the meat to your butcher. Reapply the citric acid wash every other day for best results.

Hope this helps,

larry

Larry, thanks for the correction. My main point is meat needs to be kept as dry as possible throughout the process, and not simply placed in a bag as soon as removed from the animal and then put in a creek to stay there until pack out. Should have been more clear with my advice, thanks for the correction.

Side question though, from your experience, once the meat has been cooled, rather immersed or hung, is it not a good a idea to then place the meat in running water if the water is cooler than the temps will reach during the day? For example, if you kill a bull but don't/can't pack it out for a day or two to aid a friend in their hunt, and the day time temps are getting into the 70-80 range, would it not be better to put the meat in a bag, then in water each morning after allowing it to dry/hang each night in the cooler temps?

 

[Larry Bartlett]

Hey Eagle, it depends on how long the field storage time will be. If it's 75-80 degrees and you have 3-4 days to go before transporting the meat out, I't do exactly what you described...hang it to dry at night (covered from precipitation) and then immerse it when the ambient temps rise above 65 degrees and climbing.

Any time I have the option of hang dry vs wet cooling, I'll use the dry and cool method as long as deep tissue meat temps are less than 60 degrees and try to expedite field transport. Anytime the core temps get close to 60 degrees, meat goes in the river inside a contractor bag and cooled for 3-8 hours (depends on the environment).

I'd highly suggest a regular food thermometer (the model without batteries required). Lightweight and fantastic tool to help hunters decide when they should act differently regarding hands on strategies in the field.

larry

 

[JPD350]

Appreciate the responses! some good info, all we have to worry about in NM is bugs, heat and an occasional rain.

Thanks, JP

 

[krueger]

I have shot a moose that died in a 3 foot deep beaver pond. A water-logged moose is insanely heavy and it was impossible for 3 of us to pull the moose out of the water whole. I had to gut the moose and cut it in half with a saw to get it out of the water. Also a dead moose is a lot like an iceberg, only a very small portion floats out of the water. I would highly recommend not trying to butcher or quater a moose that is still in the water as you will get swamp water and mud all over the exposed meat. I suggest that you bring a block and tackle or a come-along and winch your moose onto dry ground before you cut the hide. You will lose alot of meat if you cut it up while its in the water.

 

[bairdi]

Get a Rope-a-long. Not exactly appropriate to bring along on for ultra-lightweight hunting situations, but for most other moose hunting situations......Bring one!

I make every effort to not shoot them in the water, but even when one waits until they are on dry land to shoot, it seems that water has a magical magnetic pull to a dying moose and they attempt to find the worst spot possible to fall. If that happens, we always have a rope-a-long with 2 to 300 ft of low stretch rope with us in the boat or at least back at camp. Hopefully there will be a suitable anchor point that can be used to rope-a-long the moose out of the water. Having a rope-a-long has saved us from hours and hours of back breaking work. I think mine is rated to pull up to 1500 lbs. It has been a crucial tool used for getting trucks, four wheelers, snogos, and boats unstuck. Mine's also been used to lift large 26 foot long 12"x12" timbers to the second story of a cabin and for lifting log purlins. I pretty sure the potential uses of one is only limited by the creativity and bravery of the user.

One time I shot a moose on dry ground and the dang thing tipped over instantly. As I walked up to it congratulating myself I found it had fallen perfectly on its back, belly up and was wedged tightly in a low spot between a bunch of tussucks. 10 minutes of work with the rope-a-long and I had pulled out of the tight spot and laying on flat open ground ready for field dressing. Without the rope-a-long, I'm still not sure what exactly I would have done in the situation.