Montana season change proposal

[RutandDie]

That could not work here in WA. We have 6-7 times the population of MT and probably 1/10th of the huntable land for mulies. The mule deer herd would be wiped clean.

Not according to Grundy buck harvest doesn’t matter. Open it up to rut hunting and stop doe harvest, problem solved. It is absolutely ludicrous the people trying to defend a statewide general rut hunt. It’s wrong on so many levels.

 

[ELKdeerMT]

Would they be worse off? Or would a lot of those dead deer be in freezers instead of rotting on the winter range? Dead is dead. Maybe more animals would have survived the winter if there were fewer bucks on the winter range eating the available forage. My point was that Mother Nature is the main driver for herd size. I've been listening to Robby's podcasts that he's been doing with Biologists from Wyoming, Idaho, Colorado, and Utah. They make it seem as if buck harvest has very little to do with herd size and health. If anything, too many bucks can be a detriment (they eat the forage does need). It's funny because most of the pro hunting restriction arguments I've seen in this thread were contradictory to what all those Biologists said.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Yeah I guess if mother natures going to whipe them out anyways we should just shoot them all. What an argument. You can’t make this chit up.

 

[Grundy53]

Not according to Grundy buck harvest doesn’t matter. Open it up to rut hunting and stop doe harvest, problem solved. It is absolutely ludicrous the people trying to defend a statewide general rut hunt. It’s wrong on so many levels.

Actually, not according to me. According to Biologists. And I didn't say it didn't matter at all. It just doesn't matter as much as most people think. It takes very few bucks to maintain or grow a population. Emotional people like you are the reason we should let Biologists make these decisions. Not ballot box Biologists.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Grundy53]

Yeah I guess if mother natures going to whipe them out anyways we should just shoot them all. What an argument. You can’t make this chit up.

Read better. Maybe try doing it out loud. I didn't say anything about shooting them all since mother nature is going to wipe them out anyway. I was merely pointing out that the biggest decider in mule deer population is mother nature and habitat. You can't stock pile deer.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Jason Snyder]

Plus, like has been said earlier. Once something is gone, you aren't getting it back. Their later hunting dates are gone.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

So is that why Montana and Wyoming now have elk seasons that last six months?

 

[RutandDie]

Actually, not according to me. According to Biologists. And I didn't say it didn't matter at all. It just doesn't matter as much as most people think. It takes very few bucks to maintain or grow a population. Emotional people like you are the reason we should let Biologists make these decisions. Not ballot box Biologists.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I’m not emotional at all I’ve watched a mule deer herd get decimated by a rut hunt for 30 years of my hunting experience and see a better path forward. Why aren’t the biologists you speak of lining up for a general rut hunt in every state?

 

[Grundy53]

So is that why Montana and Wyoming now have elk seasons that last six months?

What does that have to do with anything?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Jason Snyder]

What does that have to do with anything?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

You said seasons never come back. I gave you an example of seasons being greatly expanded beyond what they ever were.

 

[Grundy53]

I’m not emotional at all I’ve watched a mule deer herd get decimated by a rut hunt for 30 years of my hunting experience and see a better path forward. Why aren’t the biologists you speak of lining up for a general rut hunt in every state?

Really? Or have you seen a herd get decimated by a decade plus of drought and hard winters coupled with loss of habitat? Seems like to me if rut hunting them was going to wipe them out, it wouldn't take 30 years.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Grundy53]

You said seasons never come back. I gave you an example of seasons being greatly expanded beyond what they ever were.

OK. I will specify mule deer seasons. I thought that was a given. Guess not. Obviously, the elk population and mule deer populations are completely different and have different dynamics.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Grundy53]

By the way, there is a 5 week general rut hunt for elk every year. Why aren't they extinct? Is it only because it's archery? Or something else?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Jason Snyder]

OK. I will specify mule deer seasons. I thought that was a given. Guess not. Obviously, the elk population and mule deer populations are completely different and have different dynamics.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I’ll give you more examples of seasons that came back. In the mid 90s some of the units in Montana were unlimited permit, and first choice only. You couldn’t hunt there without it and you couldn’t hunt another district.

Those are gone now. So, can we agree it’s a false premise to state once a season goes away it never comes back to the same or greater degree of of liberalism, be it deer or elk?

 

[Jason Snyder]

By the way, there is a 5 week general rut hunt for elk every year. Why aren't they extinct? Is it only because it's archery? Or something else?

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Gee, why don’t we hunt bulls in September with rifles in general tags, except in wilderness units with very limited access?

 

[Grundy53]

I’ll give you more examples of seasons that came back. In the mid 90s some of the units in Montana were unlimited permit, and first choice only. You couldn’t hunt there without it and you couldn’t hunt another district.

Those are gone now. So, can we agree it’s a false premise to state once a season goes away it never comes back to the same or greater degree of of liberalism, be it deer or elk?

Sure. If it makes you happy.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[Jason Snyder]

Sure. If it makes you happy.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

It’s not true. It has nothing to do with happy.

 

[Grundy53]

Gee, why don’t we hunt bulls in September with rifles in general tags, except in wilderness units with very limited access?

Probably because there are half as many elk? But that is just speculation. I wasn't alive yet when they made those seasons.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[ELKdeerMT]

Read better. Maybe try doing it out loud. I didn't say anything about shooting them all since mother nature is going to wipe them out anyway. I was merely pointing out that the biggest decider in mule deer population is mother nature and habitat. You can't stock pile deer.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

That’s exactly what you said.

In the winter of 22/23. 20,000 something deer dead in 1 winter.

Would they be worse off? Or would a lot of those dead deer be in freezers instead of rotting on the winter range? Dead is dead.

 

[Grundy53]

That’s exactly what you said.

Really? Because I just read it again, and it sure sounds like I was saying some of those 20,000 could have ended up in someone's freezer instead of rotting on the winter range. The animal is dead either way.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

 

[RutandDie]

Really? Or have you seen a herd get decimated by a decade plus of drought and hard winters coupled with loss of habitat? Seems like to me if rut hunting them was going to wipe them out, it wouldn't take 30 years.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

I live in eastern Montana. There is a good reason these conversations are coming up and a good reason MTFWP put together a mule deer committee. Our hunting is a shell of what it was. You are showing your knowledge. Honestly the people opposing this proposal are either inexperienced or don’t care about the resource. You seem like the type that would be happy to shoot the last one. The proposal still allows ample opportunity. I could come up with a lot of other solutions that would limit opportunity. Maybe that is what you prefer.

 

[ELKdeerMT]

Really? Because I just read it again, and it sure sounds like I was saying some of those 20,000 could have ended up in someone's freezer instead of rotting on the winter range. The animal is dead either way.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

So how you going to model and manage that nightmare. Hey guys we got a cold snap coming, we’re going to issue an extra 12k tags so you guys get the meat rather than them rotting in the mountains. Makes a lot of sense Grundy…maybe think a little harder before you comment. I can read just fine.