Montana HB 677, another gem.

[bsnedeker]

You are right about being forced. Libertarians don't believe people should be forced to do anything. I'm definitely not a full Libertarian. "The Libertarian Party is fundamentally opposed to the use of force to coerce people into doing anything. We think it is inherently wrong and should have no role in a civilized society."

[/QUOTE]In other words I was completely correct (sorry, couldn't resist...just giving you a hard time!)

Happy Easter!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[pyrotechnic]

I'm not super up to speed on agricultural tax law. But If this bill had included stripping away all the state tax benefits that go towards agricultural business, then I might have bought the "even playing field" argument.

 

[Billinsd]

Mr. Bartel is trying to pass legislation specifically to limit one group, just like he admitted to in this article:

Yes, and he makes no bones about it.

"stop APR from
abusing the tax code"

Well, it looks like Mr. Bartel SHOULD be suing APR's non profit status, because what they are doing, taking prime agricultural lands out of production is not charitable and violates their non profit status in his opinion. Then they would have to pay taxes on the money to buy the land. Instead, he writes this law, because? He doesn't think he could win the lawsuit?, writing a law is easier, lol who knows? This stinks to me, lol.

 

[Billinsd]

In other words I was completely correct (sorry, couldn't resist...just giving you a hard time!)

Happy Easter!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]Do Libertarians say taxes are theft too? Yes, Happy Easter and you are correct!!!

 

[Billinsd]

I'm not super up to speed on agricultural tax law. But If this bill had included stripping away all the state tax benefits that go towards agricultural business, then I might have bought the "even playing field" argument.

Politics suck even when the Republicans are in charge, pains me to say.

 

[tdhanses]

Yes, and he makes no bones about it. Well, it looks like Mr. Bartel SHOULD be suing APR's non profit status, because what they are doing, taking prime agricultural lands out of production is not charitable and violates their non profit status in his opinion. Then they would have to pay taxes on the money to buy the land. Instead, he writes this law, because? He doesn't think he could win the lawsuit?, writing a law is easier, lol who knows? This stinks to me, lol.

What they do is no different then RMEF, restore land back to its natural state so wildlife have great habitat. Not sure if APR allows public access on their lands which is their choice but just because someone thinks all lands should earn an income doesn’t make it right to take away a benefit because you want cattle to remain on land you don’t own, that guy is a loon.

 

[Deadfall]

You are right about being forced. Libertarians don't believe people should be forced to do anything. I'm definitely not a full Libertarian. "The Libertarian Party is fundamentally opposed to the use of force to coerce people into doing anything. We think it is inherently wrong and should have no role in a civilized society."

Societies are only civilized because of rules. Otherwise it's a free for all pandemonium.....

 

[tdhanses]

Societies are only civilized because of rules. Otherwise it's a free for all pandemonium.....

So is there ever too many rules then in your opinion because we have plenty currently. Just remember each rule you say brings a civilized society takes away from a free society.

 

[MT257]

What they do is no different then RMEF, restore land back to its natural state so wildlife have great habitat. Not sure if APR allows public access on their lands which is their choice but just because someone thinks all lands should earn an income doesn’t make it right to take away a benefit because you want cattle to remain on land you don’t own, that guy is a loon.

They do allow access.

 

[hobbes]

I don't recall seeing a church buying up land at the tune of 420,000 acres in MT but maybe I missed it somewhere.

Exactly where are churches buying up so much land? I may need to become a member, "sacrifice a few goats", and maybe be granted access to all their property.

 

[Deadfall]

What they do is no different then RMEF, restore land back to its natural state so wildlife have great habitat. Not sure if APR allows public access on their lands which is their choice but just because someone thinks all lands should earn an income doesn’t make it right to take away a benefit because you want cattle to remain on land you don’t own, that guy is a

So is there ever too many rules then in your opinion because we have plenty currently. Just remember each rule you say brings a civilized society takes away from a free society.

Uh....discipline brings freedom. Unfortunately humans are undisciplined, greedy creatures by nature. Non profits buying land and not paying taxes is one of many things that rips off the majority. I have to pay taxes..why shouldn't everyone else. Non profits still could by land under this legislation. They just wouldn't of been able to use the Non profit designation. I am glad this bill failed though. I just hope the next one does not leave out religious entities.

Maybe someone could introduce legislation making it easier for fwp to buy land through their fund that is always bogged in bureaucracy.

Or maybe these so called Non profits could buy through conservation programs.

Whose to say though what non profits are straight up and which ones are crooked? There are plenty that are not what they say they are.

What rules are good ones and what rules are bad ones..who determines that. Should be a government for the people, by tge people. That doesn't really exist anymore, so there's the million dollar question

 

[Deadfall]

I don't recall seeing a church buying up land at the tune of 420,000 acres in MT but maybe I missed it somewhere.

Exactly where are churches buying up so much land? I may need to become a member, "sacrifice a few goats", and maybe be granted access to all their property.

Hoots

 

[hobbes]

Hoots

Do Hutterites get to buy it as a nonprofit? If so, I wasn't aware of that.

 

[MT257]

Do Hutterites get to buy it as a nonprofit? If so, I wasn't aware of that.

They use the religion exemption to their advantage lets just leave it there.

 

[Deadfall]

Do Hutterites get to buy it as a nonprofit? If so, I wasn't aware of that.

Religious entity.

 

[Deadfall]

Religious entity.

Since they are a colony and no individual owns anything, it's bought by the hoot church

 

[MThuntr]

I don't recall seeing a church buying up land at the tune of 420,000 acres in MT but maybe I missed it somewhere.

Exactly where are churches buying up so much land? I may need to become a member, "sacrifice a few goats", and maybe be granted access to all their property.

Mormon church owns piles of Ag property...not necessarily all in MT (I haven't bothered to look how much) but they do compete for the largest land owner in multiple states

 

[brocksw]

Politics suck even when the Republicans are in charge, pains me to say.

There's a majority slimeballs on each side of the isle.

 

[brocksw]

What they do is no different then RMEF, restore land back to its natural state so wildlife have great habitat. Not sure if APR allows public access on their lands which is their choice but just because someone thinks all lands should earn an income doesn’t make it right to take away a benefit because you want cattle to remain on land you don’t own, that guy is a loon.

The APR does allow cattle on their land. To my recollection they have multiple leases with local ranchers.

They also allow public access on all of their land, hunting included. To me, this does make it a "charity" of sorts, very much like RMEF and other conservation orgs who buy land and open it up to the public. If they were to take that access away, then in my eyes they would no longer be charitably acting for the benefit of the public and they would essentially be a for profit entity with no direct benefit to the public. They'd essentially be a landowner that doesn't allow access.

This guy Bartel can put whatever candy coating he wants on this bill. But his goal is to stop or slow APR from buying land as much as possible, he and the other groups like UPOM will do this anyway anyhow. Even if all they can do is suck money out of the APR via taxes.

 

[bsnedeker]

Do Libertarians say taxes are theft too? Yes, Happy Easter and you are correct!!!

They do, but admittedly that saying is more from the fringe, severely right-leaning libertarians. It's kind of a battle cry for them.