Montana game warden show

According to the warden he could fine him and confiscate the animal

After a half hour of argument the warden “let him off” with a warning

Two horse trailer pulled by a van

My friend was an old WW2 veteran who would buy the nonresident tag, haul his horses out and basically just ride and camp while a couple friends and I would hunt
His odds had to have been 100:1 against ever killing an elk
He drug it out right into the Corral Bar parking lot where a bunch of other hunters all came out to congratulate him.
At his funeral his son said it was one of the proudest moments of his life

Then…….
He never bought another tag. Swore MTFWP would never get another penny from him.
Not disputing your recollection, but the law says what it says and the head/antlers attached to the largest portion of meat is and always was sufficient evidence of sex of animal.

Either there is more to the story or the warden was wrong.
 
Not disputing your recollection, but the law says what it says and the head/antlers attached to the largest portion of meat is and always was sufficient evidence of sex of animal.

Either there is more to the story or the warden was wrong.
A lot of interesting threads regarding wardens and the difference in laws state to state
 
Cows with horns are legal in bull units in all states I believe.
Here in Alaska, some 20 years ago, ADFG put out the word that a cow with antlers was on the Seward Peninsula ( near Nome) and was not legal to shoot. The cow and its calf did survive that season. Some thought it should have been shot in order to study this velericorn moose.
 
Not disputing your recollection, but the law says what it says and the head/antlers attached to the largest portion of meat is and always was sufficient evidence of sex of animal.

Either there is more to the story or the warden was wrong.
To be clear, I may be an ass at times but I'm not a liar or "misremembering" or leaving something out.

The warden was being a dick and abusing his power.
 
My dad volunteered as a hunter's education instructor in Wisconsin. We had a warden come in for years and speak to each class about ethics and responsibility and enjoying the outdoors. He retired. The new warden came in and spoke to the classes and said, "Every one of you is going to break a rule at some point and I'm going to catch you when you do."

I agree with those folks that say there are so many rules, and so many state to state variations, that everyone is likely at some point in violation. I recall a warden who wrote himself a ticket. He was upland bird hunting, shot a bird, then later realized the season on that species was closed. So he wrote a ticket to himself and plead guilty. It can easily happen to the best of us.
 
So let’s say the defendant wins

How would they compensate an 85 yr old man for his last bull they confiscated?

Give him his antlers back and buy him a beef?

No idea. It would depend on if they were disposed of or not. I guess it’s up to each individual as to how they respond, but I guarantee if an officer is threatening to ticket me when there is not a violation, I’ll plant my flag on that hill. I’m not going to stand there and argue. Write the ticket or don’t. If I broke the law I’ll pay it. If I didn’t I’ll run that horse to the end.
 
No idea. It would depend on if they were disposed of or not. I guess it’s up to each individual as to how they respond, but I guarantee if an officer is threatening to ticket me when there is not a violation, I’ll plant my flag on that hill. I’m not going to stand there and argue. Write the ticket or don’t. If I broke the law I’ll pay it. If I didn’t I’ll run that horse to the end.
Of course you would. (y)
Especially if you're from a thousand miles away and don't know for certain if it's a
regulatory violation or not.

But you'll make a 2000 mile round trip, motel rooms, etc. just to discover,
"Oh, sorry, your case has been rescheduled"

Then make another round trip (not to mention you
risk losing hunting privileges in several states as well as extra "court costs"
as well if found guilty).

On the off chance the judge finds you innocent where's your meat?
Where's the trophy you were going to hang in your house?
Where's the reimbursement for all your time and expense?

But, yeah, you taught 'em!!

Happy new Year
 
No dog in this, but i will tell you, going to court in an out of state case gets expensive and time consuming. 25 years ago, I was cited for shooting migratory ducks 7 minutes after sunset. I wasn't even shooting, it was my buddy. The warden said all 3 of us get tickets because he "heard" 3 different guns shoot. 0 chance I shot. Instead of fighting the ticket, I paid a 100$ fine. It was much cheaper and easier to pay the fine and move on.
 
Lots of interesting anecdotes and experiences in here. I know plenty of people violate some game laws based on what they feel is ethical or not. Some people adhere to the letter of the law exactly. Hunter orange is a good example of this, some guys are pretty loose with it and others put orange on their packs "just in case".
I will say, from my experiences as a county deputy, and working with game wardens in Montana, there is just way more country than there are state resources.

And this is true of most laws and crime- the fear of getting caught, or someone’s ethics and morality, prevent far more crime than Law Enforcement as a whole could ever hope to do. It is likely far easier to commit crimes and get away with them than the average person thinks. The ethical and rational citizen doesn't commit crime because they don't believe it is right, and the risks far outweigh the rewards for them. I had a Sergeant who was fond of saying "we only catch the dumb ones."

I've been told wildly heinous things by pissed off neighbors, and I have stumbled into some other game violations while working as a deputy. When I talked to the local warden about these things it was usually a version of "I will try, but its unlikely I can do anything."

This season I watched a semi-offensive game violation being committed and had the warden on the phone, giving him a play by play. He was committed elsewhere and unable to do anything about it at the time. Those hunters suffered no consequences that day, or likely any other.
In a different location, I came across a bull elk that had its head and back straps taken, and the rest left to rot. I did my best investigation, and basically came up with zero leads or helpful evidence. When I contacted that warden, he was very appreciative of the information but with no leads, no timeline and a bull rotting in the backcountry- that does not leave him much to work with.

Ethical hunters are often frustrated by wardens who dive into the minute details of obscure law and write tickets for it. I think these hunters are correct to feel this way, because the game agency is slipping from it's intended mission. For a variety of reasons- logistical, administrative and pure effort, it is far easier and simpler to sit at a game station and write tickets for minor violations than it is to go after hardcore poachers. It is also tremendously safer, and that is no small detail.

This is not to discredit the hardworking LEOs who acknowledge and accept the risks of their job and still look to actively hunt criminals, however, it is the nature of bureaucracy to avoid risks, even if it means compromising the overall mission of the agency. Statistics drive administrations- dollars spent, citations issued, arrests made. Agencies follow the path of least resistance to achieve this. A non wildlife example of this would be an agency who is focusing on traffic violations and parking tickets while their community has a growing drug problem. Being seen writing speeding tickets is far politically safer (and technically easier) than kicking doors on meth labs.

Long story boring- it's up to hunters to police themselves and be ethical.
 
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