Montana Elk Hunt Analysis Help

[Jfkbeast2]

Hey Everyone, I wanted to post here and ask for some feedback from those that will provide it on what I did wrong in my first elk hunt this year. I just got back from 6 days in Montana. After wanting to go for 3 years, to finally pack up the truck and head west was an incredible feeling. I cannot believe we have 12 more months to September again.

I hunted for 5.5 days and didn’t run into a single elk! I saw a ton of old sign (rubs and poop everywhere) but I didn’t even bump an elk let alone find one. I didn’t hear a single bugle the entire week in MT, which really confused me. This was last week of rut, and given the Elk101 article describing how perfect conditions were, surely I should have been hearing elk at night? But I didn’t hear a single bugle the entire week, this made it hard. What did I do wrong? I’m not looking for sympathy, I literally cannot wait to get out and try again. I’m looking for feedback and advice because I was really excited to hear a bugle live but really all I saw was a few deer. How do I fix this so I can get better? Thoughts? I want to learn, I have 12 mistakes already written down that I need to fix immediately and looking to learn. Thanks all for time. Hope you had a good elk season (and continuing season for those in the great state of MT).

Some info on the hunt:

Location: I chose central Montana as the place to hunt this year. I was solo, and given this was my first western hunt ever, I wanted to remove as many variables as possible. Therefore I didn’t want to hunt “true” grizzly country (although I know they are all over the state now). Didn’t see a single track my week in MT which was good.

Logistics: I knew I had to be mobile, so I hunted out of truck camp. This worked incredibly well and I really prefer it as I slept in 4 different spots over 6 nights all with access to different drainages.

The hunt: I did about 30 miles in 5.5 days of hunting (only got to hunt Saturday morning). I was very worried pushing past 3 miles due to pack out. Zero to do with physical fitness (I was completely fine), and more than this would be my first elk quartering and packing out ever, completely alone. To me, felt like 5-7 miles deep + that inexperience was irresponsible. I know this limited me but it is what it is. My plan most days was to pick a good section on OnX, start hiking in dark on trail and then break off trail into a feature that looked good like a bench of saddle. For 2 of those days, I did use the trail to get 2.5 miles in and then went through all forested area lining the drainage. I was probably too close to the trail here?

Wildlife: I did bump and run into 3-4 deer over the course of the week, both first/last light and midday in bedding area. I don’t know if elk are typically found close to deer? The other weird thing is I kept smelling what I thought was elk. A strong barn smell. Realize this could be deer but worth nothing.

Sign: I kept running into a ton of sign, but none seemed fresh best I could tell. I put some pictures below.

Other Intel: lastly, I ran into some very nice hunters in the woods and they expressed similar challenges in finding bugles and elk. BUT, one camp next to me did come back mid day with a small bull. They used 4x4s and said it wasn’t near the trailhead but that he came in completely quiet to a cow call. They said they killed him on flat terrain. For what it’s worth.

Any and all help appreciated. What an incredible learning experience — I know I’m a better hunter already!

 

[TradLife406]

First mistake was thinking there's elk in Montana.
Seriously though the hunting here has gotten super hard. Predator and human pressure is through the roof. Cats wolves griz and Frank from Minnesota.

Lots of elk aren't even going up to their summer grounds up high. They just hang out in the aug fields and cow pastures.

Don't be too hard on yourself. Elk hunting is hard. I didn't see much for elk my first couple years when I decided to give it a solid try as a resident. It took about two years before I started getting shot opportunities.

Also if there's no elk in an area by day two you'd better bail. Regardless of the sign.

You had five days to hunt. You realistically need about 14+. That adds time to relocate, weather day and sometimes it's super nice to just take a day off mid hunt. Or even just sleep in. Let that body recover.

Honestly I'm about done with OTC elk here. Not worth the time money and effort anymore. Kinda dumb driving by elk that are over hunted to try and find other elk.

I'd be curious about hunting elk in the SW. Elk that aren't being run around by wolves would be epic.

 

[AHayes111]

Sounds like you were hunting places you should have been opening day. Most of the cows are on alfalfa field as soon as the pressure hits the mountains and with the amount of non hunting recreation today and wolves that can be well before season. Some of the bulls will stick around, but as soon as the rut starts they are gone,

 

[jjordan355]

I agree with AHayes. Looks like you were close to a bulls stomping grounds pre rut according to the rubs. Bulls are gonna leave those areas once the testosterone rises and cows start coming into estrous. I would’ve moved spots after the end of day 1 honestly. Remember sign doesn’t mean anything if there’s not an elk immediately attached to it. Elk are nomadic by nature. Mark the sign and read the sign to understand what you’re looking at but if you’re not watching an elk poop or it isn’t still steaming, I pretty much disregard that stuff during the rut.

You don’t have to walk 5-7 miles in to find elk. Sometimes people that hike really far in pass elk to get to further away elk. And that’s fine if the goal is less pressured animals but a one way pack out alone that’s over 5 miles is incredibly abusing to the body.

If you’re not hearing elk bugle at night the last two weeks of September keep moving spots until you find elk that are bugling at night. Really doesn’t matter the time at night, they’ll bugle even in high pressure areas. Often times even during the day but you have to locate the elk. Hike in a little ways in the dark sit for 20-30 minutes and see if there’s bugling going on and if not back out and hit another spot. My personal name of the game is accuracy by volume. What I mean by that is I hit many different areas until I find the elk that are huntable.

 

[Jfkbeast2]

You had five days to hunt. You realistically need about 14+. That adds time to relocate, weather day and sometimes it's super nice to just take a day off mid hunt. Or even just sleep in. Let that body recover.

Yes completely agree here man. The 33 hour drive home was brutal because the whole time I was just replaying the hunt and how I need another week to implement the lessons I learned. Listened to elk podcasts the whole way home too which was nice salt in the wound lol

 

[Jfkbeast2]

Sounds like you were hunting places you should have been opening day. Most of the cows are on alfalfa field as soon as the pressure hits the mountains and with the amount of non hunting recreation today and wolves that can be well before season. Some of the bulls will stick around, but as soon as the rut starts they are gone,

Thanks for this Ahaynes. Yes I did think within first day that damn this area probably got hammered. But it was hot a few days (70+), so I was assuming elk were still climbing to highest elevation in morning?

I would’ve moved spots after the end of day 1 honestly.

When you say move, how do you mean? I did move to 4 different spots but they were all probably within 30 mins to 1 hour of each other. Do you mean move mountain ranges or a multi-hour drive to a different unit? Would love help here, maybe I wasn’t “moving” enough tbh.

Thank you all for the help, please know I really appreciate it.

 

[jjordan355]

Thanks for this Ahaynes. Yes I did think within first day that damn this area probably got hammered. But it was hot a few days (70+), so I was assuming elk were still climbing to highest elevation in morning?


When you say move, how do you mean? I did move to 4 different spots but they were all probably within 30 mins to 1 hour of each other. Do you mean move mountain ranges or a multi-hour drive to a different unit? Would love help here, maybe I wasn’t “moving” enough tbh.

Thank you all for the help, please know I really appreciate it.

No problem! Love to help man.

I would say your drive distance doesn’t really matter it’s just getting a good feel of each spot and if there’s elk there or not. They could be in the next basin or drainage over and you can’t hear them or see them and you drive 30 minutes to do something similar and find them there. I would say cover a lot of ground with glass if you don’t have the luxury of being local and scouting pre season or pre hunt.

Getting high on a glassing knob to get a vantage is helpful. The more land you can look at through binos or a spotter will tell you more. I personally don’t walk 4-5 miles into a spot unless I’m confident elk are there. I get high on a glassing knob and figure out where they are first then put the miles behind me.

During the rut the bulls are gonna be with cows. So if you can locate cows and what their habits are for the area you’ll find the bulls. Look for feeding areas that elk will be in early in the morning or late in the evening. Small open parks/meadows, if there’s ag fields close you can bet they’ll hit that at some point. Elk can walk 20-30 miles a day and pass 4 good feed areas and 3 water holes that as a hunter you’ll look at and think wow this looks like great habitat and there won’t be an elk close by.

Elk typically bed on north/northwest facing slopes because it stays shaded and cool the longest. So early morning glassing you wanna watch those north faces that have good cover/shade. Same with late morning when they’re gonna go bed down for the hot part of the day.

 

[Team4LongGun]

@TradLife406 nailed it. Lmao "Frank from Minnesota" He gets around!

I'll add a few things-

Sign/smell- the rubs you posted are this years, that's decent sign. The scat and tracks are dry and old. If not finding fresh scat and tracks, they aren't in there currently, move on. (rain will extend/trick you a bit, keep in mind)
Smell-you can definitely smell elk, if they are upwind of you, or you are in a wallow or a bed. Generally speaking, don't confuse MT with CO and their super herds! A lot of publications and writing regarding elk sign refers to places like WY and CO that have huge herds and just more elk. Smaller herds do not have near the sign here.

Before hiking in the dark/first light and possibly bumping elk, you should get to a point up high and glass. This is often overlooked, as guys don't want to "burn a morning or evening hunt" to glass. Why spend a whole day in a drainage if it is void of elk?

Add more days to your hunt. Glassing to FIND elk first, taking a morning off as Trad said is huge. If your burnt out on day 5 and don't rest and reset, giving half effort the rest of your hunt is not going to lead to success.

Finally, this is my working theory here along with several old timers I know. The "youtube hunting" style is having a profound effect on the elk, specifically the bulls and bugling. Dudes rolling to every ridge and drainage blasting bugles, sometimes FROM the truck with it running, thinking they will find an active or "easy" bull to target is educating them. I have seen it first hand this season numerous times, as I am in the drainage near 3 bedded bulls who are not talking, these guys keep rolling in and bugling. SMH.

Keep at it, don't be afraid to try a brand new area, have plan B, C and F as far as locations on your next hunt. Sometimes you will just luck into not only a place that isn't full of guys, but elk that haven't been bothered too much. Just know if you find this, next year is a roll of the dice.....

 

[Jfkbeast2]

Getting high on a glassing knob to get a vantage is helpful. The more land you can look at through binos or a spotter will tell you more. I personally don’t walk 4-5 miles into a spot unless I’m confident elk are there. I get high on a glassing knob and figure out where they are first then put the miles behind me.

This is super helpful, thank you. I am such a novice with spotting — I brought my Leupold SX-4 pro 15-45x65mm and I used it one time the whole trip. On the way home, I was listening to guys saying you need to get to glassing knobs and spot, then go attack those elk and I was so pissedI didn’t do this more. I didn’t even carry my spotter with me because I didn’t realize this honestly. Live and learn!

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the general process? You find a high point, hike there in the dark, when light comes up you find the elk, then do you book it back to the truck, drive around and drop into a basin? Or I assume if close enough you just pack up and hightail it over to them on foot right? I know a novice question but I’ve never “glassed” in my life before so just trying to learn.

Noted on cows — that’s a good tip in rut!

 

[Jfkbeast2]

@TradLife406 nailed it. Lmao "Frank from Minnesota" He gets around!

I'll add a few things-

Sign/smell- the rubs you posted are this years, that's decent sign. The scat and tracks are dry and old. If not finding fresh scat and tracks, they aren't in there currently, move on. (rain will extend/trick you a bit, keep in mind)
Smell-you can definitely smell elk, if they are upwind of you, or you are in a wallow or a bed. Generally speaking, don't confuse MT with CO and their super herds! A lot of publications and writing regarding elk sign refers to places like WY and CO that have huge herds and just more elk. Smaller herds do not have near the sign here.

Before hiking in the dark/first light and possibly bumping elk, you should get to a point up high and glass. This is often overlooked, as guys don't want to "burn a morning or evening hunt" to glass. Why spend a whole day in a drainage if it is void of elk?

Add more days to your hunt. Glassing to FIND elk first, taking a morning off as Trad said is huge. If your burnt out on day 5 and don't rest and reset, giving half effort the rest of your hunt is not going to lead to success.

Finally, this is my working theory here along with several old timers I know. The "youtube hunting" style is having a profound effect on the elk, specifically the bulls and bugling. Dudes rolling to every ridge and drainage blasting bugles, sometimes FROM the truck with it running, thinking they will find an active or "easy" bull to target is educating them. I have seen it first hand this season numerous times, as I am in the drainage near 3 bedded bulls who are not talking, these guys keep rolling in and bugling. SMH.

Keep at it, don't be afraid to try a brand new area, have plan B, C and F as far as locations on your next hunt. Sometimes you will just luck into not only a place that isn't full of guys, but elk that haven't been bothered too much. Just know if you find this, next year is a roll of the dice.....

This entire message is so helpful, thank you for taking the time. I did NOT know that about he elk herds and differences by state, I’m going to spend time learning more about this. I guess I’m technically my own Frank from Minnesota

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the general process? You find a high point, hike there in the dark, when light comes up you find the elk, then do you book it back to the truck, drive around and drop into a basin? Or I assume if close enough you just pack up and hightail it over to them on foot right? I know a novice question but I’ve never “glassed” in my life before so just trying to learn.

I wanted to ask you same question I asked here on spotting? I know it’s a newb question but I am a new elk hunter. Given I’m coming from east coast, I need to be effective when scouting as I just don’t have that many days to burn. I am going to try and do a 12 day hunt next year, plus the 2 days driving each way. (If I get a tag)

 

[jjordan355]

This is super helpful, thank you. I am such a novice with spotting — I brought my Leupold SX-4 pro 15-45x65mm and I used it one time the whole trip. On the way home, I was listening to guys saying you need to get to glassing knobs and spot, then go attack those elk and I was so pissedI didn’t do this more. I didn’t even carry my spotter with me because I didn’t realize this honestly. Live and learn!

If you don’t mind me asking, what is the general process? You find a high point, hike there in the dark, when light comes up you find the elk, then do you book it back to the truck, drive around and drop into a basin? Or I assume if close enough you just pack up and hightail it over to them on foot right? I know a novice question but I’ve never “glassed” in my life before so just trying to learn.

Noted on cows — that’s a good tip in rut!

Once I find elk it all depends what they’re doing and how the wind is. I do get to a high point 45 minutes to an hour before legal shooting light and have my glassing setup already as you can see well before shooting light with a good pair of binos on a tripod. Then I’ll switch to my spotter if I need to evaluate something closely. I don’t always carry my spotter but almost always have my tripod to use my binos on it. With a good pair of 10x42s you can tell what you’re looking at from several miles.

My spots I typically don’t have to drive to another access point I can just walk there most of the time. I don’t hightail to them early in the morning because the wind is usually swirling and tumultuous. Sometimes you get lucky and have bulls close early and play that wind if that situation is there. If the wind is bad and elk are close just back out. Don’t teach the elk anything and play them later when the wind changes.

If they’re up eating and it’s getting late in the morning I wait till they bed and the wind and thermals are stable which is typically after 12 ish. All depends on the area. I almost only spot and stalk elk. If anything anymore I may use a cow call if the situation is correct. If they’re bedded in the late morning/early afternoon I put myself in a position that’s close to the herd or bull I’m targeting and let them make the mistake. Make sure the wind is good before you set up on a herd or bull. When I say close I’ll get within 100-150 yards with a good wind and let the situation play itself out. If you cow call that close every elk will know there’s SOMETHING there. I say something because they can’t see an elk and you’ve just given your position away and they’re aware something is in that area.

 

[Team4LongGun]

I guess I’m technically my own Frank from Minnesota

You get a pass, I was born in PA

 

[Justin (Raz) Rasmussen]

I hope everyone was paying attention here. This is how you get quality advice on a forum.

State what you did and what you learned. Ask questions you have, listen to the advice and ask any clarifying questions you may have of said advice.

Notice the quality of answers the OP received because he did it this way. Well done.

 

[el_jefe_pescado]

I think Newberg (love him or hate him) said it best "I will trade a day of scouting for a day of hunting..."

It's hard to kill what's not there---bottom line. Without an extensive history in a specific unit and knowing that you are competing with a bevvy of other hunters you have to find elk before committing yourself to an area. That probably means allotting more time moving forward.

 

[mad_angler]

First. I think are taking a great first step. You are analyzing your first attempt.

I would suggest to take that one step further while it is still fresh in your mind. Maybe a log book of sorts: what did you do each morning and each evening. Then, rate each of those and think about what you could have done differently. For example, let's say that you came out at 5pm one evening. You could grade that sorta low and consider that you might stay until dark next time. (But taking a break or two in the middle of a tough week is actually a pretty good use of your time since it will refresh you).

I am new too. And I think you (we) are just starting a long learning journey. You did great and took the first step. Lat year, you knew nothing. You learned a lot. But you still know next to nothing. Next year, you'll be way further along than you are now...

 

[mad_angler]

... You had five days to hunt. You realistically need about 14+. That adds time to relocate, weather day and sometimes it's super nice to just take a day off mid hunt. Or even just sleep in. Let that body recover.

That is a great point. Adding 2 more days of hunting doesn't add 40%. It is not linear. It adds about 400% or 4,000%. Just think about how much more you knew at day 5 compared to day 1.