Model 70 classic stainless not grouping

[rickyw]

I recently acquired a used model 70 classic stainless in 30-06. Six digit serial number. It is in a plastic cheap stock which I free floated.

I took it to the range yesterday and sighted it in first with Hornady interlock 180 grain. It shot sub MOA. Then i tried Barnes ttsx 168, absolutely terrible. Then federal terminal ascent, over 2 MOA. Went back to the interlocks and shot another group sub MOA. Then tried eld x 178, 2 MOA.

My newbie question is this: could a more stable stock, bedded, improve accuracy of some of these loads even though it does so far shoot one load well? Or is it just being picky?

Thanks

 

[Huntr]

I don't think a different stock is gonna make a real difference. The classic Winchesters are not known to be the most accurate, and this comes from a big Winchester fan.

 

[ElkSnort]

I recently acquired a used model 70 classic stainless in 30-06. Six digit serial number. It is in a plastic cheap stock which I free floated.

I took it to the range yesterday and sighted it in first with Hornady interlock 180 grain. It shot sub MOA. Then i tried Barnes ttsx 168, absolutely terrible. Then federal terminal ascent, over 2 MOA. Went back to the interlocks and shot another group sub MOA. Then tried eld x 178, 2 MOA.

My newbie question is this: could a more stable stock, bedded, improve accuracy of some of these loads even though it does so far shoot one load well? Or is it just being picky?

Thanks

I'd bed the action too and make sure the mag box isn't binding. Model 70s can also be finicky with action screw torque. It's also possible that the gun just likes more traditional style bullets over the higher BC pointy stuff.

 

[vonb]

I have a 5 digit classic stainless in .270. It’s bone stock and groups are decent with holes usually touching @ 100 yards. That said, it’s bedded in what appears to be hot glue in the lug area of the cheap synthetic stock. Try that as quick cheap test and see if it tightens groups.

 

[rickyw]

I'd bed the action too and make sure the mag box isn't binding. Model 70s can also be finicky with action screw torque. It's also possible that the gun just likes more traditional style bullets over the higher BC pointy stuff.

There should be some play to the mag box? This mag box doesn’t move at all. It’s two piece bottom metal, if that matters

 

[SDHNTR]

It’s not grouping but it shot a sub moa group? It’s grouping just fine! And it’s telling you what bullet it likes. You should listen to it! What you are seeing is not at all uncommon.

If you must, I’d be willing to bet a good bedding and trigger job would do it some good. Very easy to do on M70’s. Make sure that center guard screw is no more than just snug.

 

[rickyw]

It’s not grouping but it shot a sub moa group? It’s grouping just fine! And it’s telling you what bullet it likes. You should listen to it! What you are seeing is not at all uncommon.

If you must, I’d be willing to bet a good bedding and trigger job would do it some good. Very easy to do on M70’s. Make sure that center guard screw is no more than just snug.

That’s the heart of my question is whether any work to accurize the rifle will matter or if it just really likes interlocks and that’s how it is. Maybe a little work will make it more accurate across the board

 

[SDHNTR]

That’s the heart of my question is whether any work to accurize the rifle will matter or if it just really likes interlocks and that’s how it is. Maybe a little work will make it more accurate across the board

If I owned the rifle, in the next hour I’d have it bedded and the trigger lightened, because why not? It probably won’t change the gun’s preference for Interlocts, but it might also tighten everything up a bit too.

Bedding isn’t going to make a bad group great, but it might make good, better and increase overall consistency. Barrel preference is just that, and it’s a waste of time and ammo to fight it. Just go with it. Besides, the Interloct is a fine bullet. I wouldn’t hate on your gun one bit.

 

[Choupique]

Is the scope a known good scope? Rings and bases installed correctly? How many shots are the groups?

 

[S-3 ranch]

That’s the heart of my question is whether any work to accurize the rifle will matter or if it just really likes interlocks and that’s how it is. Maybe a little work will make it more accurate across the board

My M70 300wm was 180gr federal or bust , .5 moa federal, anything else would open it up to 1.5 tried partion, ect nada
found the federal killed everything under the sun from moose to coyotes with zero issues .
180gr imo will do the job on just about anything moose, elk , eland, kudos, deer.
I would run them with out hesitation , lots of marketing campaigns will disagree
but how is a flemsy ELDX better than a interlock? Heck a Remington cor-lok is better then a eldx, maybe try those in 180

 

[BadTostada]

I too have a 30 cal rifle that really likes interlocks for some reason. Switching from a stock to a chassis made no difference. Doesn’t shoot noslers, federal fusions, or eldms well at all. Only thing it shoots better is 168gr sierra match kings. Interlocks work fine for a hunting bullet

 

[Vern400]

Production rifles are made with middle of the road chamber tolerances. And the legacy cartridge Chambers can be a little more picky than the newer cartridges. It's Not unusual to find one particular kind of ammunition that shoots far better than anything else.

I've been developing loads for a new Howa 1500 in 308 and it is showing one of the interlocks as its favorite so far as well.

You may find the interlock bullet is less pointy. So the ogive (where the bullet actually becomes .308 diameter ) might be closer to the tip of the bullet. Some production rifles have a very long throat which means the bullet may move 0.125 or even 0.200 inch before it engages the rifling. There are gauges that will allow you to measure the distance from the cartridge base to ogive. You could measure that dimension and compare the ones that shoot very well, and poorly. There will still be differences in bullet construction that's an additional variable. Despite modern wisdom that says seating depth doesn't matter, 0.125 or more is a fairly tremendous jump. I have found over six or eight guns in 308 and 30-06 many prefer a jump less than 0.060. To any rule there will be an exception in the rifle world.

Unless you hand load, you'll simply have to try several, or many different kinds of ammunition and by the one that performs the best. Once you figure out what your rifle likes, a 30--06 is a very capable and accurate weapon. Chances are if you're shooting great groups with one kind of ammunition repeatably, and by that I mean at least 20 rounds downrange with groups of 5 to 10... The barrel isn't broken and the rifle isn't inaccurate. Your term picky might be appropriate.

 

[gbflyer]

I recently acquired a used model 70 classic stainless in 30-06. Six digit serial number. It is in a plastic cheap stock which I free floated.

I took it to the range yesterday and sighted it in first with Hornady interlock 180 grain. It shot sub MOA. Then i tried Barnes ttsx 168, absolutely terrible. Then federal terminal ascent, over 2 MOA. Went back to the interlocks and shot another group sub MOA. Then tried eld x 178, 2 MOA.

My newbie question is this: could a more stable stock, bedded, improve accuracy of some of these loads even though it does so far shoot one load well? Or is it just being picky?

Thanks

Stock and bedding will probably not solve that. Keep shooting the 180 Interlocks. I’ve owned 3 of them.

 

[rickyw]

Production rifles are made with middle of the road chamber tolerances. And the legacy cartridge Chambers can be a little more picky than the newer cartridges. It's Not unusual to find one particular kind of ammunition that shoots far better than anything else.

I've been developing loads for a new Howa 1500 in 308 and it is showing one of the interlocks as its favorite so far as well.

You may find the interlock bullet is less pointy. So the ogive (where the bullet actually becomes .308 diameter ) might be closer to the tip of the bullet. Some production rifles have a very long throat which means the bullet may move 0.125 or even 0.200 inch before it engages the rifling. There are gauges that will allow you to measure the distance from the cartridge base to ogive. You could measure that dimension and compare the ones that shoot very well, and poorly. There will still be differences in bullet construction that's an additional variable. Despite modern wisdom that says seating depth doesn't matter, 0.125 or more is a fairly tremendous jump. I have found over six or eight guns in 308 and 30-06 many prefer a jump less than 0.060. To any rule there will be an exception in the rifle world.

Unless you hand load, you'll simply have to try several, or many different kinds of ammunition and by the one that performs the best. Once you figure out what your rifle likes, a 30--06 is a very capable and accurate weapon. Chances are if you're shooting great groups with one kind of ammunition repeatably, and by that I mean at least 20 rounds downrange with groups of 5 to 10... The barrel isn't broken and the rifle isn't inaccurate. Your term picky might be appropriate.

Thanks Vern. Makes a ton of sense considering it repeatedly shoots the interlocks well so far. I’ll take it out to the range next week again and shoot some more interlocks and also some other ammunition. Might be a good time to venture into some hand loading as I’ve been saving 30-06 brass for a long time

 

[Gen273]

Why not just shoot the 180 interlocks?

Bedding the action/stock may help.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Repeatable sub MOA groups with a specific bullet/ammunition tells you all you need to know. It's not your skill or scope. It's what your gun likes. Keep shooting the Hornady's. 180 gr interlock is good for anything in the USA.

With that, I agree bedding is part of a long term gun/owner relation and with a M70 any gunsmith can stone the trigger as good as any aftermarket trigger,

 

[rickyw]

I’ll be shooting the interlocks. It is nice to have options though, but I think we’re good. A new stock and bedding will be nice future upgrades. Thanks everyone

 

[JimGa]

Make sure the action screw is not super tight. Over tightening in a m70 can sometimes cause issues.

 

[Axlrod]

I bought one of the stainless classics in 300 Wby. back in 1996. I went through 10 different bullets (reloads) that all shot 2"+ groups. Tried multiple different powders/loads. Several hundred rounds later I finally stumbled on Winchester Fail safe bullets that would go into 1.25"
Some guns are particular in what they will shoot. I have others that will shoot most anything. Just listen to your gun, and shoot what it likes.

 

[Forestryguy]

In the day 2 Mao was acceptable average groups. The .5 Mao guarantee is new to the industry.