Missing hunters in Colorado

[Nickofthewoods]

Could pulmonary or cerebral edema have caused this. I’m 30 minutes from Asheville and we don’t get much above 5000’ feet elevation.

Unlikely, especially for the guy from Utah. If the other guy came straight from sea level he might feel ill on the first day or two before acclimating but hopefully his partner would recognize if that escalated and get him to help. Hace/hape are not very common in Colorado, even at 14k.

 

[5MilesBack]

I would HIGHLY suggest that anyone who doesn’t think they need rain gear for a western hunt reevaluate that decision.

I have rain gear. Sometimes I actually use it. But normally every Sept elk hunt I'm either drenched in sweat, rain, or both. Regardless, I'm wet. In 2013 it rained so much that I hunted every day like I had just climbed out of the pool with my clothes on.

The day of my avatar pic it poured all the night before. I woke up at 5am to head out and it was still pouring, so rolled over and fell back asleep. I woke up again late, well past first light and jumped up and made my coffee, got ready, and headed out in the ~40 degree temps. It was still raining, but there was one place I wanted to hunt that morning that I had an encounter with a bull 3 days earlier. I jogged the 1.5 miles up the draw. Still raining and fog layer up top, I sent out a bugle. Immediate response across the draw and up in the timber. I went after that bull and put an arrow through him maybe 5 minutes later. The next few hours it went from downpour to drizzle to downpour several times while I worked on breaking him down. Never saw the sun that day, and it snowed the next morning.

Like I said before in the thread, if it's wet and cold......keep moving. If you can't move.......then you better have a way to build a fire.

 

[Ajvilla]

Sad

 

[RockAndSage]

Like I said before in the thread, if it's wet and cold......keep moving. If you can't move.......then you better have a way to build a fire.

The brain disease "get-home-itis" gets a lot of people in trouble, telling themselves they just need to keep moving toward the truck and they'll be fine. In principle, move to stay warm is good, but there's a tipping point. Better to stop and build a fire early and take the ego hit, than march past that tipping point and fall down to "just rest a minute" later on.

 

[3forks]

I have rain gear. Sometimes I actually use it. But normally every Sept elk hunt I'm either drenched in sweat, rain, or both. Regardless, I'm wet. In 2013 it rained so much that I hunted every day like I had just climbed out of the pool with my clothes on.

The day of my avatar pic it poured all the night before. I woke up at 5am to head out and it was still pouring, so rolled over and fell back asleep. I woke up again late, well past first light and jumped up and made my coffee, got ready, and headed out in the ~40 degree temps. It was still raining, but there was one place I wanted to hunt that morning that I had an encounter with a bull 3 days earlier. I jogged the 1.5 miles up the draw. Still raining and fog layer up top, I sent out a bugle. Immediate response across the draw and up in the timber. I went after that bull and put an arrow through him maybe 5 minutes later. The next few hours it went from downpour to drizzle to downpour several times while I worked on breaking him down. Never saw the sun that day, and it snowed the next morning.

Like I said before in the thread, if it's wet and cold......keep moving. If you can't move.......then you better have a way to build a fire.

And if the bull you went after took longer than 5 minutes to kill, how long would you have sat while drenched in the cold waiting for it to come in before needing to start moving again to get and stay warm, or were you going to build a fire were you were set up?

Merino and other synthetics will dry and provide warmth even if they get wet. A rain jacket and pants that will breathe will allow the base layer to dry out. I’m sure you know that, and I’m also sure I won’t change your mind on whether you want to be drenched while you hunt, or use rain gear and keep your base layers dry. However, while it might have worked for you, I think it’s unrealistic to think that you can get soaked and stay soaked and just keep hunting without getting cold or moving enough to get yourself out of trouble.

 

[lukebrowning]

I think we are finding this one so difficult because most of us have probably been faced with similar decisions but for whatever reason, either luck or optimal decisions, we survived. I'm guessing they saw a nice bull, looked at the map and found a closer trailhead. Moved the truck to get closer to the bull. While in the heat of the moment they probably sat at the back of the truck reasoning with each other on what to take and leave behind. They decided to leave certain things behind, maybe in the interest of getting to the bull quicker, that likely could have saved their lives.

In weather like it appears they experienced (cold/wet/windy), and without the right gear or knowledge, an inreach doesn't really do you any good if you do not have the means to survive the night. In that scenario they may have made the calculated decision to keep moving to stay warm and get back to the truck.

Rather than asking yourself "what if", I have found (at least for me) telling myself "it will" has led to more disciplined decisions on gearing up in the heat of the moment. "What if it rains?" "What if I get stuck in the backcountry at night." Can easily turn into telling yourself "what if it doesn't rain, then I carry this extra weight".... "what if I only limit myself to 2 miles in so I don't need to carry extra gear to spend the night."

When I changed my thinking to "it will rain" and "I will see a bull at 2 miles and chase it for another 2 miles before shooting it" has made me more disciplined.

Obviously all this within reason...

 

[ddowning]

The disadvantage of a PLB is that you have to push the button for help. If you are incapacitated it will do nothing for you.
Using a unit with tracking capabilities like InReach, Garmin can provide your location when you are unable to hit the SOS.

It seems like for most, it is prudent to have both. $500 is a drop in the bucket if you are THE guy for your family and everything depends on you or your life insurance paying out.

These guys were in a little bit different of a situation. They were certainly loved by their families, but it appears not married yet and no kids. That is less responsibility and up to them if they want to take the risk or not. The loss is a tragedy nonetheless, but once you are the main caretaker of your family the level of responsibility for your own safety is much higher in my opinion. From the outside looking it it looks like these gentlemen might have been on the cusp of that level of responsibility, but not quite there yet. We were/are all adventurous risk takers in some way when young.

 

[Finch]

The one hunter's fiance admitted in a FB post it was due to the storms. No word of lightning or hypothermia but it should dismiss some of other theories.

 

[3forks]

It seems like for most, it is prudent to have both. $500 is a drop in the bucket if you are THE guy for your family and everything depends on you or your life insurance paying out.

These guys were in a little bit different of a situation. They were certainly loved by their families, but it appears not married yet and no kids. That is less responsibility and up to them if they want to take the risk or not. The loss is a tragedy nonetheless, but once you are the main caretaker of your family the level of responsibility for your own safety is much higher in my opinion. From the outside looking it it looks like these gentlemen might have been on the cusp of that level of responsibility, but not quite there yet. We were/are all adventurous risk takers in some way when young.

A lot of guys wouldn’t think twice about justifying dropping $500+ on a pistol if they’re going to be hunting in bear country, but a PLB isn’t as fun to own.

Guys don’t have to live in fear, and go overboard on satellite devices and gear for every possible scenario… just the basics and some best practices will keep 99% safe and alive in all but a freak accident that none of that stuff could have prevented.

 

[LostArra]

Merino and other synthetics will dry and provide warmth even if they get wet. A rain jacket and pants that will breathe will allow the base layer to dry out. I’m sure you know that, and I’m also sure I won’t change your mind on whether you want to be drenched while you hunt, or use rain gear and keep your base layers dry. However, while it might have worked for you, I think it’s unrealistic to think that you can get soaked and stay soaked and just keep hunting without getting cold or moving enough to get yourself out of trouble.

My merino does stay warm when wet but your experience with breathable rain gear and base layers drying is very different from mine.
Also "breathable" to me means delayed soaking if caught in rain lasting an hour or more.

 

[Serrano]

In the wrong weather, keep moving won't keep you alive.

Stay as dry as possible. It's probably the most likely thing to save you.

Yes, in some situations the Deadman features of some devices could be useful.

 

[LCguy]

I think we are finding this one so difficult because most of us have probably been faced with similar decisions but for whatever reason, either luck or optimal decisions, we survived.

This right here. I think the abundance of preposterous theories in this thread is because people don't want to admit that they are also just a few choices away from not making it back. Doesn't matter how experienced you think you are or might be, we are all one mistake made in the heat of the moment away from a candle light vigil. I think it's a good reminder of how dangerous this hobby can be and to not get complacent.

 

[Serrano]

Multiple ways to start a fire in wet weather are a must have. Waterproof tinder such as charcoal lighting cubes or other flammable dry materials.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I remember that. I think you're talking about this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim

That's the one. So sad...

 

[Dan Carey]

I, like others pack a lot of possibles in my pack. More of the sounds good than the real survival products. I'm going to reevaluate my pack contents thanks to this.

 

[180ls1]

I, like others pack a lot of possibles in my pack. More of the sounds good than the real survival products. I'm going to reevaluate my pack contents thanks to this.

A mylar poncho is probably the most overlooked safety item that costs/weighs almost nothing. Never get one in camo coloration, Blaze Orange or Mylar Silver only.

 

[3forks]

My merino does stay warm when wet but your experience with breathable rain gear and base layers drying is very different from mine.
Also "breathable" to me means delayed soaking if caught in rain lasting an hour or more.

I don’t know what to tell you, other than if you’re convinced you cannot make any improvements to what you already own or believe that being damp whenever you’re out is just going to be how it is, keep doing what you’re doing. Otherwise, other than your Frog Toggs level of rain gear that you’d find in a gas station, the majority of manufacturers all use fabrics that allow base layers to wick moisture from your body while a technical fabric allows the water vapor to escape. You can also most definitely stay dry in an extended downpour with a fabric that uses a waterproof membrane as opposed to a less breathable or durable/long lasting DWR finish.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Multiple ways to start a fire in wet weather are a must have. Waterproof tinder such as charcoal lighting cubes or other flammable dry materials.

Vacuum sealed cedar shavings and a bic lighter are ALWAYS in my pack.

 

[Serrano]

I take the childproof tab off the bic lighter. It is so much easier to strike with numb hands.

Always be prepared to spend a wet cold night outside every time you go out.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Autopsies scheduled for Monday (9/22)