Missing hunters in Colorado

[WCT3]

Disagree.

See my post above if you haven't already.

Two-way communication is a hugely important, lifesaving capability.

A breadcrumb trail, real time location, messages with your wife and others, and the SOS button are all separate and distinct functions on the SAT messaging devices.

When you push the SOS button on the InReach, a message with your location is sent to the IERCC which will ask you to confirm if you are having an emergency and then ask a bunch of other questions about your location, condition, equipment and supplies all while contacting the agency responsible for search and rescue in your area and getting them rolling. What this response looks like, who mounts it, and how long it takes varies based on where you are at.

Being able to dialog with the SAR responders about the nature and condition of any injuries, weather and conditions at the scene, etc. are critical in helping the SAR teams prep and execute their mission and in doing so, increase the chances that you will survive.

Regarding signal strength of given devices, the more important factor is the satellite network that the devices uses and availability/proximity of those satellites to your location.

Garmin uses the Iridium network and PLBs use the SARSAT network. Both have a similar number of satellites and are equally as reliable. Terrain and location of the device is usually the limiting factor when it comes to the device communicating with the satellite network.

Personally, I have experience far more false/inaccurate location reporting incidents with PLBs than with Iridium network devices. Most of those have been with downed aircraft in mountainous terrain. Again, in my mind, this reinforces the need for two-way comms. If the SAR team can't find you based on a weak PLB signal, you are hosed. If they can't find you with an inaccurate location on the InReach, they ask you for your coordinates and come pick you up.

Good to know. I seem to have a lot of issues with connectivity on my inReach and was considering adding a PLB after reading this thread thinking it would have better connection.

 

[Doc Holliday]

No, this has been consistent. Initially it was said that there was some gear in the car but the family wasn't sure what they had packed spares/extra of. The family later confirmed in an update that things like game bags, bows, and knives were not in the car so they felt they had left the car to go hunt. It was never confirmed or even implied that they just left the car with nothing but the clothes on their backs.

I thought I saw previously where packs and camping gear were left in the vehicle. You need a pack to pack out an elk.

 

[intunegp]

I thought I saw previously where packs and camping gear were left in the vehicle. You need a pack to pack out an elk.

I don't recall seeing anything (from the family) that said their packs were in the vehicle. Some camping gear, yes, but they also said they weren't sure what was extra/duplicate. They also said most times the guys returned to the car at night and slept there so it wouldn't be unusual for camping gear to be in the car since the car was camp.

 

[CorbLand]

Yea you got me! Lol

I had to Google but signs of hypothermia can be determined during autopsy. Primarily in the organs.

I would find it odd that the inReach wouldn’t have been used if they went hypothermic. That’s not a fast way to go and one would think you would get to a point of knowing it was getting bad before you lost your ability to rationally think but I am not an expert. Also would be odd that both of them would deteriorate at the same pace.

 

[TaperPin]

Regardless of how many gizmos someone carries, you have to have enough gear for the conditions. The best way to survive hypothermia is to carry proper clothes and gear so you don’t get hypothermia in the first place. The best way to get out of being lost, is to not get lost in the first place. Use digital maps, but a simple printed map in a ziplock always works. Use a digital gps, but understand how to route find with a compass. This incident has probably sold $100k in new gizmos throughout the west, but how many people have even talked about working on back country skills other than having a new better button to push.

 

[Doc Holliday]

I had to Google but signs of hypothermia can be determined during autopsy. Primarily in the organs.

I would find it odd that the inReach wouldn’t have been used if they went hypothermic. That’s not a fast way to go and one would think you would get to a point of knowing it was getting bad before you lost your ability to rationally think but I am not an expert. Also would be odd that both of them would deteriorate at the same pace.

Yep, Lightning seems to be the most logical if they did have Inreaches.

Exposure if they did not.

 

[intunegp]

Yep, Lightning seems to be the most logical if they did have Inreaches.

Exposure if they did not.

Would a lightning strike bad enough to kill two guys not leave signs? I'm not at all familiar but I'd think if you stumbled upon the bodies of two dudes who got killed by lightning the report wouldn't be "no obvious injuries"

 

[LCguy]

But if they had an inreach, freezing to death is not fast.... they would have surely sent an outgoing message of their situation, which would have eventually sent when the weather cleared, even if they had already passed. Unless they powered it off trying to save battery strength and then never woke up.

That or it was dead. Additionally, hypothermia has severe mental affects that cause people to make choices they otherwise wouldn't.

 

[CorbLand]

Yep, Lightning seems to be the most logical if they did have Inreaches.

Exposure if they did not.

News article said there was no visible signs though and I would think a lighting strike would leave visible signs. Even if they were under a tree that got hit so it wasnt direct, I would think it would leave visible signs.

I don’t know though. Never been hit nor do I know anyone that has.

 

[Doc Holliday]

That or it was dead. Additionally, hypothermia has severe mental affects that cause people to make choices they otherwise wouldn't.

Yeah, I’ve read several stories of folks offshore who take their clothes off because a sensation of extreme heat comes over the victim

 

[DuckDawg22]

The last sentence in that article is kind of weird, the coroner said "It's a big mystery to a whole bunch of people." Maybe he can't officially say anything before the autopsy, but you'd think he could at least say "hypothermia is suspected based on inadequate clothing" or something along those lines.

 

[dlee56]

I had to Google but signs of hypothermia can be determined during autopsy. Primarily in the organs.

I would find it odd that the inReach wouldn’t have been used if they went hypothermic. That’s not a fast way to go and one would think you would get to a point of knowing it was getting bad before you lost your ability to rationally think but I am not an expert. Also would be odd that both of them would deteriorate at the same pace.

This podcast made me realize how easy it might be to slip into hypothermia without realizing it. Out there hiking and cold, just trying to get to that spot as fast as you can, it’s easy to get used to being uncomfortable, and easy to keep pushing until it’s too late. Who knows what happened to these guys but I know there’s a bunch of guys here who wouldn’t hit the InReach SOS for a broken arm or dislocated shoulder, let alone “feeling pretty cold”.

Epic Outdoors 294 Epic Survival Stranded During CO 2nd Rifle

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Yeah, I’ve read several stories of folks offshore who take their clothes off because a sensation of extreme heat comes over the victim

Ive read the same in multiple accounts. When extreme hypothermia sets in, people very often will strip down naked. I remember a story in the pacific NW where a couple got stuck in a bad storm in the mountains and couldn't get turned around in the car. It got so bad eventually they burned their tires to try and get someone's attention. Ultimately the husband left to try and find help, and they found him like 6 miles away after they found a trail of clothes, the last being his blue jeans and sweatshirt. Very, very, sad stuff. His partner was found alive but in tough shape.

 

[Fatcamp]

It’s just gets weirder and weirder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not really. High elevation, sparse gear, bad weather. The entire area sounds like it was soaking wet and cold.

A bunch of us on here have skirted around the fringes of similar situations. My wife and I went through one a few years ago.

 

[Flyjunky]

I'm with you man. I'm about to change my InReach plan to where it tracks me. Share the link with my wife and Dad. My wife has stumbled across the story of these guys and now she's more nervous even though I've solo hunted for years.

As was mentioned before, you can share your location via satellite with a newer iphone or emergency SOS.
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It’s more than just the talk about the InReach. If they would have had basic survival equipment on them we might not be having this discussion. Every time you venture into the wilderness you SHOULD be prepared to spend the night.

 

[Fatcamp]

News article said there was no visible signs though and I would think a lighting strike would leave visible signs. Even if they were under a tree that got hit so it wasnt direct, I would think it would leave visible signs.

I don’t know though. Never been hit nor do I know anyone that has.

I saw a picture of dead wild horses on a hillside from a lightning strike. Different than being on scene but there wasn't much to see, with no trees anywhere close.

 

[Flyjunky]

Regardless of how many gizmos someone carries, you have to have enough gear for the conditions. The best way to survive hypothermia is to carry proper clothes and gear so you don’t get hypothermia in the first place. The best way to get out of being lost, is to not get lost in the first place. Use digital maps, but a simple printed map in a ziplock always works. Use a digital gps, but understand how to route find with a compass. This incident has probably sold $100k in new gizmos throughout the west, but how many people have even talked about working on back country skills other than having a new better button to push.

Couldn’t agree more. Look at this thread, how much of the discussion is about a technology solution. Technology does, and will, fail. Basic survival equipment and preparedness might have changed this entire situation.

People need to go back to the basics and have the technology options as the last resort.

 

[Dan Carey]

"People need to go back to the basics and have the technology options as the last resort." Amen

 

[fngTony]

I don’t think that trail head is at 11,700ft either.

Agree, it would be in sparse shrubs not tall timber. According to google search “
The approximate elevation at 37.08516° N, 106.49852° W is 2,752 meters (9,029 feet)
.
This location is in the Rio Grande National Forest, west of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains, in Colorado. ”

 

[TradArcher]

Probably exposure but I also wonder if they ate something and it was poisonous. Could explain 2 bodies without obvious trauma and clothes still on (referencing the removal of clothing by some cold victims).