Minox ZP5 5-25 Input

[Johnc427]

I'm looking at upgrading my current NRL rigs scope. Considering a Minox ZP5 5-25 w/ MR4. Pretty big fan of the reticle design. I'm currently running a NX8 4-32 and was pretty set on a ATACR 5-25 until I started reading about the Minox ZP5. I'm also having a hard time finding reviews and why they aren't more popular (I see it passed the infamous form drop test). I understand they're fairly heavy. Anyone have any additional info??

Here is what's most important to me:
1. Holds Zero and tracks true
2. Clarity
3. Generous Eye box (Nx8 falls short here)

Thanks all

 

[Formidilosus]

Here is what's most important to me:
1. Holds Zero and tracks true

I’m only aware of two personally that have been used very heavily- both have been perfect.

2. Clarity

I have multiple S&B’s, ZCO, TT, NF ATACR’s, Swarovski X5’s, Etc. Side by side, the ZP5 is the only scope that has resulted in people saying “holy shit” when they looked through them.

3. Generous Eye box (Nx8 falls short here)

It is phenomenal. The best eyebox of any high power scope that I have seen.


I have not seen enough to say, but if the ZP5 is consistently as durable and reliable as the two that I have- it is the best LR scope on the market.

As for why they aren’t more popular; we’ll, they don’t sponsor anyone in PRS- and that is a very big reason, they don’t advertise at all, their scopes aren’t in stores, and they are expensive. A German scope from a brand no one has heard of, that costs $3,000+, that has no media behind it= not very popular. For the PRS group that does know about them- that group is dominated by whatever is popular and what is popular is generally what is sponsoring shooters and what is on the prize table. Also, no matter how good a scope is, that market is driven by the desire for high zoom ratios, short length, and “features”- the ZP5 is a simple, extremely well thought out, and made scope.

 

[wind gypsy]

They were acquired by Blaser a while back and i've seen folks blame that for their limited support in the longer range/match shooting format. Seen people complain about limited warranty support and issues with the turrets not aligning with marks on scope body and parallax function issues. Most of this stuff i saw on snipershide, id do some research over there.

There was a 3-15 zp5 listed recently that I was tempted on for an NRL scope as well..

 

[JohnJohnson]

I'd expect the ZP5 would look noticeably better than the ATACR 5-25. The ATACR also has low power tunneling. So it's more like a 7-25 since below 7 power the image shrinks without the FOV increasing. I can certainly say the 7-35 is noticeably better than the 5-25.

As far as why you don't see more of the ZP5, that's a little bit of a few things I'd guess. The early 1-2 years of the ZP5 were mired in issues and bad (plus far away) customer service. I've heard the issues got fixed and customer service got better but it made a lot of people hesitant. I'm certainly interested in trying out a ZP5 for a hunting scope in the future.

For the PRS group that does know about them- that group is dominated by whatever is popular and what is popular is generally what is sponsoring shooters and what is on the prize table.

I think the only "old" scope design that's increasing in popularity (without sponsorships) in the PRS is the Tangent Theta 5-25 which came out around the same time as the ZP5. But it has that tool-less re-zero that people love. Whether it retains zero, I don't know, but PRS guys don't seem to care about that as much. Plus crazy ass depth of field, unbeaten mirage performance, and TT came out with the JTAC reticle that the top PRS guys helped design a few years ago.

high zoom ratios, short length

I don't think people mention this enough. Making (good) short scopes is extremely difficult and high erector ratios constrain eyebox. A lot of the PRS trend towards higher top end magnification (and as a by-product, higher erector ratios) appears to be them just trying to get the best image quality in the 12-20 power range that they shoot matches in. Since most scopes have an optical sweet spot within their magnification range where field of view, depth of field, resolution, contrast, etc are best.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I've used one on a Sako in .260 Rem since around 2019 I believe it was? My guns get used quite a bit more than the average user. It's one of my favorite scopes of all time in over 30 years of shooting. It has since been moved to a Tikka in 7SAUM being used as a true 1,500 yard plus target gun and multiple big game confirmed kills past 1,000 yards.

Once I swapped it into some better rings and mounted/torqued the scope down as per this thread https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-mounting-to-maintain-zero.78482/ it hasn't ever had to be re-zeroed on this Tikka in thousands of rounds and dozens of hunts.

The "glass" "eyebox" "light gathering" "brightness" and all the other stupid "optics terms" that folks use for hunting scopes put this particular scope at the top of just about anything I've ever used. It destroys anything from Leupold or Nightforce that you've ever looked through.

If I could only choose one gun to use forever for all uses, I'd have a hard time not choosing that Tikka 7SAUM with the Minox ZP5, in fact... I have a wood Rokstok coming specifically for that gun so it will force me to use it even more than I do.

@Reburn and @Dobermann I believe both also have some use with one of these scopes to speak to.

 

[Johnc427]

As for why they aren’t more popular; we’ll, they don’t sponsor anyone in PRS- and that is a very big reason, they don’t advertise at all, their scopes aren’t in stores, and they are expensive. A German scope from a brand no one has heard of, that costs $3,000+, that has no media behind it= not very popular. For the PRS group that does know about them- that group is dominated by whatever is popular and what is popular is generally what is sponsoring shooters and what is on the prize table. Also, no matter how good a scope is, that market is driven by the desire for high zoom ratios, short length, and “features”- the ZP5 is a simple, extremely well thought out, and made scope.

That makes a lot of sense. I haven't heard hardly anything about them, but what i have heard/read has been really good. Seems like they can be found in the $2k range used fairly easily. I don't care about the short length or high zoom ratios. I care about what i listed above. Especially for a rifle I shoot +2k times a year and is my primary competition/long range practice rifle. Thanks again form!

 

[Johnc427]

I've used one on a Sako in .260 Rem since around 2019 I believe it was? My guns get used quite a bit more than the average user. It's one of my favorite scopes of all time in over 30 years of shooting. It has since been moved to a Tikka in 7SAUM being used as a true 1,500 yard plus target gun and multiple big game confirmed kills past 1,000 yards.

Once I swapped it into some better rings and mounted/torqued the scope down as per this thread https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/scope-mounting-to-maintain-zero.78482/ it hasn't ever had to be re-zeroed on this Tikka in thousands of rounds and dozens of hunts.

The "glass" "eyebox" "light gathering" "brightness" and all the other stupid "optics terms" that folks use for hunting scopes put this particular scope at the top of just about anything I've ever used. It destroys anything from Leupold or Nightforce that you've ever looked through.

If I could only choose one gun to use forever for all uses, I'd have a hard time not choosing that Tikka 7SAUM with the Minox ZP5, in fact... I have a wood Rokstok coming specifically for that gun so it will force me to use it even more than I do.

@Reburn and @Dobermann I believe both also have some use with one of these scopes to speak to.

Thanks for your input! I'd like to hear from the other folks that you mentioned to see what their input is, specifically their long term use and/or customer support/warranty since that seems to be a great area. I sent B&H Photo a email and they state the warranty is lifetime. Would like some real world experience as well.

 

[Dobermann]

@Johnc427 - have you read both of Form's ZP5 threads - and all of the additional links he and I posted in those? Those threads capture almost everything available on the internet about the ZP5.

I don't have as much time behind mine as @Formidilosus or @mxgsfmdpx, but here are some observations and leads that may help with decision-making:

• Apparently, the optical design came from ex-S&B engineers. I think this is detailed in some of the posts by 'Glassaholic' on the Hide.
• It's worth doing a search for ZP5 as a keyword and Glassaholic and BLKWLFK9 (Dave from the Just F'N Send It Podcast) and posters on the Hide - both eval'd and/or ran them for a bit.
• I think the general opinion when they came out was that 'glass' was about as good as it got - as Form said, they got a lot of early attention. Many folks have posted on the Hide saying that the optical quality is better than the ATACR, and up there with the higher-end S&B models, TT, and ZCO.
• Three other things that contributed to the ZP5 possibly not being taken up as much (in addition to what has been posted above): first was a review on the Hide by BigJimFish, where he clearly didn't understand the THLR reticle. This seemed to cloud his assessment overall. Second, the US Minox importer gave a huge cashback deal (I think, or maybe a discount) a few years ago, that people then grumbled about for its possible impact on the secondhand market. Of course, that offer should have not had any impact on people's objective experience of using the scope, but some posts over there then made the leap to say that the scope was therefore of lower value than retail cost, and was therefore lower quality. It was all one illogical mess, but there you go. Third, one specific retailer made veiled references to issues with returns, but did not give details. Personally, I think the way they did this reflected worse on them that the scope.
• One other issue, that combines with what Form has noted about sponsorships, free scopes, etc, is the 'cool' factor. Aside from Glassaholic and Dave, not many poeple were talking them up or using them. And other scope companies have kept coming out with new designs, which has seen people sell scopes to try out the new (eg Razor Gen 3 and the Mk5). Personally, I think it's better to have one solid option that retains the same construction and features for years, if it works, rather than seeing scopes as being quasi-fashion items.
• Reticle - many do not understand what the THLR reticle offers - it's the best of all worlds of a mil-based reticle that aligns with quick wind and quick-drop style corrections. It's almost a mil/BDC crossover - this has been covered in a couple of posts here between myself and Form, and @THLR covers it in one of the videos. It's hard to explain, but you can use it as a straight mil reticle, pretty much as 'just' a BDC reticle, or something that combines elements of both. Some other reticles can do this, but this one was purposefully designed to do so - and @THLR is a genius, although he'd never say so himself. As for the MR4 variant, it's a clean perfectly serviceable Christmas tree style reticle, if you can handle dots instead of lines - and if you like Christmas trees. In fact, when I thought that kind of reticle was needed for long-range comps, I was leaning towards just getting a ZP5 MR4, given that the form, function, optical package, etc etc were all so good on my THLR variant. I've since come to realise that the THLR reticle will actually do most of what I would want from a 'tree' reticle in practice - but it offers far, far more. However, if I wanted a dedicated LR scope, and the ZP5 THLR were not available, I'd likely go for the ZP5 MR4, as the rest of the scope's aspects (perhaps, as opposed to 'features') - especially the durabilty - are just so good.

Overall, I think it's worth grabbing one, and making up your own mind. And if you don't want it, there should be a strong resale market - if it's the THLR version, it will get snapped up here (there's at least three of us in this short thread alone who would likely buy it). And I suspect the MR4 would still get a few takers on the Hide who are either thorough enough to do their own research, or who have been around long enough to remember the impressions it made.

Hope that helps.

@Reburn, @mxgsfmdpx, @Formidilosus - do you want to expand on any of the above?

 

[Dobermann]

There was a 3-15 zp5 listed recently that I was tempted on for an NRL scope as well..

For me, the 3.-15 is not as good of an option, as it doesn't come with the THLR reticle, and is not much lighter than the 5-25 from memory - I think I've posted the weigts in another thread here somewhere.

 

[Dobermann]

If I could only choose one gun to use forever for all uses, I'd have a hard time not choosing that Tikka 7SAUM with the Minox ZP5, in fact... I have a wood Rokstok coming specifically for that gun so it will force me to use it even more than I do.

Isn't funny how the 'there can be only one' thought experiment can lead to unexpected choices?

I'd recently gone through the same process, and landed on 6.5 Creed with the ZP5, and a wood Rokstock.

A 223 with the RS1.2 SHR-MIL will do most of what I 'need' to do, but it can't do all. The 'one gun forever' pushed the ZP5 right back up there ...

 

[wind gypsy]

My understanding is they came from the same 3-15 and 5-25 Premier scope lineage that Tangent Theta did - basically as good as it gets on the optical front.

 

[Ajsomp]

I’m really trying not buy another scope - but doesn’t seem like any way to see one in person without buying it. I really do like that reticle- obviously great glass is a bonus.

 

[Dobermann]

I’m really trying not buy another scope - but doesn’t seem like any way to see one in person without buying it. I really do like that reticle- obviously great glass is a bonus.

If the THLR reticle appeals, and the size and weight are manageable for your application, it's hard to think of something else that anyone wouldn't like about this scope - controls are fine, glass is phenomenal, and it's so far showing to be durable. Hard to get that combination in any scope at all. The fact that it has the (currently) best reticle for long-range hunting (and, arguably, shooting overall) is a bonus.

 

[Johnc427]

Doberman,

Thanks for the thorough response. I read a bunch about the THLR Reticle and not exactly sure if it's for me, but I understand it's appeal especially in a hunting application. I'll need to do more research but I'm thinking the MR4 is more my style (Currently run an Mil-XT and I do like it). Size and weight shouldn't be an issue. I wish I had a way to look through one but like Ajsomp said, you pretty much have to buy one to try it.

 

[Johnc427]

Also I've seen guys sell these scopes that are listed as "White box" models. What is that??

 

[Ajsomp]

If the THLR reticle appeals, and the size and weight are manageable for your application, it's hard to think of something else that anyone wouldn't like about this scope - controls are fine, glass is phenomenal, and it's so far showing to be durable. Hard to get that combination in any scope at all. The fact that it has the (currently) best reticle for long-range hunting (and, arguably, shooting overall) is a bonus.

The weight is honestly the only downside as I see it - but you get a hell of a lot

 

[philys21]

Where are they available to purchase new and in stock?

 

[Johnc427]

Where are they available to purchase new and in stock?

Euro Optic and B&H Photo have them but not in stock. I actually sent B&H an email today about how long it takes to get one and they are going to get back to me in a day or two..

 

[Dobermann]

Also I've seen guys sell these scopes that are listed as "White box" models. What is that??

From memory, there were two box colors. The early models were reported with some minor issues. If you scan the Hide, you'll find which box was considered to have the issues ironed out (I think it was white, but could be wrong). And I think some folks said the box color change was not directly timed to the early issues being sorted anyway ... again make your way through the threads on the Hide - it's all there.

 

[Dobermann]

Euro Optic and B&H Photo have them but not in stock. I actually sent B&H an email today about how long it takes to get one and they are going to get back to me in a day or two..

From a very quick search, looks like there were a LOT sold on the Hide this year - and at least one is still available, MR4 reticle.