“Meaningful” differences 6.5 cm be 308?

[Wycowboy]

Hey all
I’m new here but have been reading for a while

I would love some thoughts and ideally real world data if any of you have it.

I’ve been looking at several ballistic gel video tests on YouTube. And it got me to wondering if there is actually any real world meaningful difference in a performance between 150 grain Ttsx from a 308 compared to a 127 Grain LRX
On medium-size game under 400 yards?

on the gel tests I have seen the Creedmoor has more penetration so to my way of thinking even if the 30 Cal is a slightly bigger wound channel is likely made up for by the Creedmoor‘s length of wound channel.
Thoughts?

I have been hunting with a 308 for many years and very comfortable with what it does but
I was on the cusp of buying a new 308, but looking at the gel test it made me wonder 6.5 might actually be doing a better job having better technology and science behind it

Thanks so much truly appreciate your thoughts!

 

[Brontosaurus]

Hey all
I’m new here but have been reading for a while

I would love some thoughts and ideally real world data if any of you have it.

I’ve been looking at several ballistic gel video tests on YouTube. And it got me to wondering if there is actually any real world meaningful difference in a performance between 150 grain Ttsx from a 308 compared to a 127 Grain LRX
On medium-size game under 400 yards?

on the gel tests I have seen the Creedmoor has more penetration so to my way of thinking even if the 30 Cal is a slightly bigger wound channel is likely made up for by the Creedmoor‘s length of wound channel.
Thoughts?

I have been hunting with a 308 for many years and very comfortable with what it does but
I was on the cusp of buying a new 308, but looking at the gel test it made me wonder 6.5 might actually be doing a better job having better technology and science behind it

Thanks so much truly appreciate your thoughts!

Welcome to Rokslide!

Here is a database of real world cartridge/bullet experiences people have been having. You will find the data to be eye opening. I'd recommend starting with the .223 thread as its the premise of what the other threads are built on.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Seeing that the 223 thread is such a success, I thought maybe I would start one for the Creedmoor/260. Seems like people are asking a lot about using them and various bullets, especially for elk. I've used mine for the last few years almost exclusively. I have some pics of bullet damage, albeit...

rokslide.com

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

With the success of .223 and 6.5 threads on big game, thought I’d throw this one into the mix. Show and detail your results harvesting big game (deer, bear, elk, moose, African game) using 6mm/.243 cartridges. Please detail bullet, MV, impact velocity, and whether hand load or factory ammo.

rokslide.com

 

[bojangles808]

If you click on those threads you can search the thread for the bullet you are interested in (eg. Click 6.5 cm thread, then at the topclick the magnifying glass to search and change search 'everywhere' to 'this thread' and type in 127 LRX and it will show everything in the thread with 127 LRX mentioned to narrow it down for you

 

[ElPollo]

If you need or want to stick with the non lead options, you might want to look at these DRT bullets. They are a compressed powdered tungsten core that fragments and appear to result in bigger wound cavities than any of the other non lead options. They also have better BCs. I’m planning to try them out on game next fall. They sell both bullets and loaded ammo. With bullets like these, there is probably less reason to pay the recoil tax with a larger cartridge.

6.5 Creedmoor/260 for Deer, Elk, and whatever else.....

Are any of the cup and core traditional deer factory ammo worth a dang in 6.5 cm? Look to set up a new rifle, something 0-300 that's a little bit more cost effective than eldm. The one deer I shoot with bondstrikes barely left any blood. American whitetail? Fusion? I suppose if I've had success...

rokslide.com

DRT Rifle – DRT Ammo

drtammo.com

 

[hereinaz]

It is straightforward, velocity helps penetration and expansion. Same bullet construction, the 6.5 is “better” because it is going faster.

At 308 ranges, it doesn’t really matter which you go with if you are killing with what you got.

 

[bnewt3]

Within 400yds or so it really doesn't make any difference. Beyond 400yds 6.5 takes the lead but both can still kill game effectively with proper shot placement.

The big difference I see between them is recoil. Assuming the same weight rifle, 6.5 will have quite a bit less recoil and so easier to shoot well.

Another way to look at it is you can have quite a bit lighter rifle in 6.5 and have the same recoil as a .308.

Sent from my SM-S506DL using Tapatalk

 

[Colby]

I wouldn’t shoot copper out of either one.
6.5 will be a good bit better in the wind and have less recoil.
I don’t think critters will be able to tell the difference but the 6.5 will be easier to hit them with.

 

[HeavyAssault]

Unless you want another caliber of ammunition to buy....just stick with what you got.
You could buy 6.5CM in 156gn if even 143gn...not sure why you settled to compare 150gn to 127gn.

 

[ericmcd]

No difference at 400 yards, both will kill to the same amount of dead at that range. keep your .308 and buy a nice scope, stock or a ton of ammo to practice with

 

[Macintosh]

Hey all
I’m new here but have been reading for a while

I would love some thoughts and ideally real world data if any of you have it.

I’ve been looking at several ballistic gel video tests on YouTube. And it got me to wondering if there is actually any real world meaningful difference in a performance between 150 grain Ttsx from a 308 compared to a 127 Grain LRX
On medium-size game under 400 yards?

on the gel tests I have seen the Creedmoor has more penetration so to my way of thinking even if the 30 Cal is a slightly bigger wound channel is likely made up for by the Creedmoor‘s length of wound channel.
Thoughts?

I have been hunting with a 308 for many years and very comfortable with what it does but
I was on the cusp of buying a new 308, but looking at the gel test it made me wonder 6.5 might actually be doing a better job having better technology and science behind it

Thanks so much truly appreciate your thoughts!

Your question regarding those two specific bullets, I assume you chose those two because those are factory copper offerings? the 150gr ttsx requires significantly higher velocity to expand than the 127 lrx does, according to Barnes. Based on looking at a decent amount of photos of expanded bullets that include impact velocity, the “concensus” that Ive taken away is that the 127 LRX probably needs 2000fps minimum, the 150 TTSX needs something like 2200+. Run the numbers in a ballistics calculator for your altitude, but I’d be surprised if the 150gr 308 still had 2200fps much past 350 yards. By that measure the 6.5 will almost certainly give you an additional 50 or 75 or even 100 yards of effective range, OR give you more reliable expansion when comparing at the same range.
If you want to shoot a copper bullet, I’ve used Barnes ttsx and been happy-enough with the results that Im choosing to continue using them and the LRX, but the velocity required limits your effective range. If you want to shoot longer with good results another type of bullet could be worth looking into.

 

[Wycowboy]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses truly appreciate it!
to answer a few of the questions
I am getting a new rifle since my 60 year old 660 .308 that I got used 25 years ago at a pawn shop for my first hunting rifle finally had the barrel shot out

I’m getting a howa superlite
Comes in 6.5 7mm-08 and 308
sub 5 lb so concerned about recoil

I am comparing 150 tttsx and 127 lrx
Because I’m limited to lead free for several person reasons
I love 150 gr copper out of my 308 on elk. fantastic results so it is my reference point and what I would be shooting out of a new 308
127 lrx is the heaviest monos I can find in factory ammo getting me 1500 ft lb at 300
If I get the 6.5

So if there is no significant meaningful difference in performance sub 400 yards
I’m leaning toward the 6.5
but if the .308 has an advantage I’ll go that route

past history 25 years worth shows most of my elk are all sub 280 yards but I want to be able to shoot to 400 if that is the opportunity I want to feel good at taking it

Also l be looked the tables and I know the .308 has a ft lb advantage but does the 6.5a. High sectional density even things out.

Thanks again!!!

 

[General RE LEE]

My experience has been both are excellent calibers for whitetail within sane hunting distances.

 

[wesfromky]

I just went through this decision process as well. Was planning on .308, but changed to 6.5cm because I think the 127lrx and 143eldx are better for my planned usage vs the .308 equivalents based on various threads here, other sites, and looking at the charts. Less recoil is a solid bonus. Just ordered a 16.1" ruger American go wild in 6.5, since it is already the length I want to go with my OCL hydrogen L when it gets out of jail.

 

[Rich M]

I just can't see a 6.5 cm out-penetrate a 308 when comparing apples to apples. 127 gr bullet vs 150 gr bullet, both of those coppers should punch all the way thru.

Anyway - 6.5 should have less recoil. That's about the main diff unless you split hairs. I'd likely get the 6.5 CM.

 

[prm]

Penetration is a moot point between these two choices. Neither is likely to stop in a critter. If it does, it will be in the far side hide and already done the killing damage.

If I went .308, I would probably go with the 130 TTSX. The faster they hit, the wider they open, the more damage they do.

But for your two proposed alternatives, it is splitting hairs. The 6.5 CM seems to shoot nearly everything well, and it will have less recoil, so I’d give it a slight advantage in shootability in a light rifle. If comparing two bullets of similar design, the fatter one does a tiny bit more damage in my experience. Does it matter? Eh, maybe.

 

[wesfromky]

If I went .308, I would probably go with the 130 TTSX. The faster they hit, the wider they open, the more damage they do.

Looking at various charts, even though the 127lrx starts out slower, at 300 yards they are about equal. And the lrx should open "better" then the ttsx at lower velocities (1600 min vs 1800 min). But, that is all on paper, so there may not be any real world difference.

 

[prm]

I ran some quick numbers at 5k elevation. All three are right around 2200 fps at 400 yds if starting at the Barnes ammo box velocity. All three would work well for OP‘s stated conditions.

150/2164
130/2214
127/2191

 

[jimh406]

Penetration is generally very similar with the same type bullet from all of the gel tests I’ve seen. Obviously, if the expansion is similar, the 308 will make a larger hole. Whether it matters or not is up for debate.

The tsx expands less than the LRX while the ttsx and LRX are closer to being similar.

The biggest advantage of the 308 is number of factory offerings and cost. If you will shoot a lot, that might matter. However, the Superlite isn’t really made as a target gun, so maybe that won’t matter to you.

The biggest advantage of the 6.5 is less recoil if you use a lighter bullet. Whether you will notice the difference between a 150 308 and 127 6.5 is a different matter. But, you could also go down to a 130 gr 308. Then, the difference is even less.

Since you already have a 308, maybe it makes sense to stay with it to keep only one type of ammo even if you rebarrel your current rifle unless you rebarreled it to 6.5 as well.

Some suppressor manufacturers suggest 5/8-24 as a minimum for 308 suppressors. If you believe that, the 6.5 would likely be a better choice if a suppressor is in your future. However, I’ve seen a few suppressors on 308 Superlites. They are relatively new, so maybe the long term effect will be negative.

Then, it gets more complicated if you go with 7mm-08 … choices.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses truly appreciate it!
to answer a few of the questions
I am getting a new rifle since my 60 year old 660 .308 that I got used 25 years ago at a pawn shop for my first hunting rifle finally had the barrel shot out

I’m getting a howa superlite
Comes in 6.5 7mm-08 and 308
sub 5 lb so concerned about recoil

I am comparing 150 tttsx and 127 lrx
Because I’m limited to lead free for several person reasons
I love 150 gr copper out of my 308 on elk. fantastic results so it is my reference point and what I would be shooting out of a new 308
127 lrx is the heaviest monos I can find in factory ammo getting me 1500 ft lb at 300
If I get the 6.5

So if there is no significant meaningful difference in performance sub 400 yards
I’m leaning toward the 6.5
but if the .308 has an advantage I’ll go that route

past history 25 years worth shows most of my elk are all sub 280 yards but I want to be able to shoot to 400 if that is the opportunity I want to feel good at taking it

Also l be looked the tables and I know the .308 has a ft lb advantage but does the 6.5a. High sectional density even things out.

Thanks again!!!

If it were me I'd probably go with the 6.5cm (actually, I did just that recently), however if you've been solely shooting a 308 for 25 years I think that's a lot of caliber familiarity you're letting go of by switching. I think unless there's a reason to do so I'd be hard pressed to switch up without a good reason to do so. You probably already have 308 ammo as well so that's also a notch in the 308 column.

 

[bnewt3]

If it's a case of "im not going to use use the 308 because I now have the 6.5" because it's "better"....... I say keep using the .308 and put that money into another few days of hunting during the year. Nowhere near enough difference at the ranges you stated to make any difference. Dead is dead.