Matt Rinella Speaks to Pope and Young

[MattB]

And today I see p and y announce a new world record tule elk. Hunter posted about it on another site; the outfitters doesn’t even list a price for the hunt, just call for pricing and the hunter talked about how it was a “hunt” where the outfitter calls you when the elk are on the ranch. A fine example of what hunting is becoming, well done p and y

The outfitter there is one of my best friends and is as ethical a hunter as there is.

To set a couple of things straight which should take most of the vitriol out of the narrative you have concocted:

1) The tule elk hunt price isn’t on the outfitter’s website because it is set by the landowner (not the outfitter) and changes every year. Tule elk hunt prices have increased 30-50% over the past 5 years, so showing last year’s price on the website would just set the outfitter up for difficult conversations with future hunters. He also has a pretty long list of hunters who want to hunt with him, so any price might be 5 years old when a hunt actually happens.

2) The notion that the outfitter calls the hunter when the elk are on the ranch is inaccurate. The cows live on the ranch year round, but the mature bulls only come out of the hills and join the cows during the rut. He has observed that the timing of the rut can vary by a week or two year to year so, with only taking one hunter per year, he has learned it works out better if his hunter can be flexible. Most of his hunters don’t have that sort of flexibility so he operates off of firm dates.

We do ourselves no favors by posting half-truths based on second-hand accounts to try to tear down other hunters. We should strive to be better than this.

 

[TheTone]

The outfitter there is one of my best friends and is as ethical a hunter as there is.

To set a couple of things straight which should take most of the vitriol out of the narrative you have concocted:

1) The tule elk hunt price isn’t on the outfitter’s website because it is set by the landowner (not the outfitter) and changes every year. Tule elk hunt prices have increased 30-50% over the past 5 years, so showing last year’s price on the website would just set the outfitter up for difficult conversations with future hunters. He also has a pretty long list of hunters who want to hunt with him, so any price might be 5 years old when a hunt actually happens.

2) The notion that the outfitter calls the hunter when the elk are on the ranch is inaccurate. The cows live on the ranch year round, but the mature bulls only come out of the hills and join the cows during the rut. He has observed that the timing of the rut can vary by a week or two year to year so, with only taking one hunter per year, he has learned it works out better if his hunter can be flexible. Most of his hunters don’t have that sort of flexibility so he operates off of firm dates.

We do ourselves no favors by posting half-truths based on second-hand accounts to try to tear down other hunters. We should strive to be better than this.

What I posted regarding the call is what was posted by the hunter on another website

 

[MattB]

What I posted regarding the call is what was posted by the hunter on another website

I understand, but you intimated that there was something unethical about the outfitter suggesting that the client should wait until the bulls start getting in with the cows before setting hunt dates. It just seems petty to impugn the character of people you don’t know based on conversations you were not a part of because of how you interpreted one comment you read on social media.

 

[Boltgun]

It’s all these damn western hunters that are the problem! Do more hog hunting, it’s a practically unlimited hunting resource.

Seriously though, we can point fingers all day, but this is likely an indication of our culture as a whole. The demand for elk hunts has exploded, but I bet the number of squirrels harvested every year has declined.

We want the pinnacle of what is available, but are disinterested in the foundation. I don’t know Matt Rinella or Cam Hanes, but maybe I can get a few of my friends into hunting, and it doesn’t have to be the glorious western hunt either. If we all focus on what’s immediately around us and less on the famous hunters or famous game, maybe we can move away from picture-based hunting.

 

[Swamp Fox]

Squirrel hunting with dogs has taken off again ...

Just sayin' ...

 

[ODB]

Squirrel hunting with dogs has taken off again ...

Just sayin' ...

And mules…and Llamas….

 

[BradArnett]

Not sure how many guys watched the video before posting....but, he makes a lot of great points. I'd mostly agree with him on the access and recruiting problems. He ties them to the the social media issue and I do side with him on that.

 

[stdeb11]

I listened to it and follow/listen to some of the hunt quietly things. He makes a lot of good points....however my sense of humour and his are definitely different. The last minute of his presentation about that "hunt warz" joke just completely lost me and ended an otherwise great speech on a weird note. I've had that happen before with their Instagram as well

 

[Brando']

I agree with most of what he is saying but his delivery is all wrong. The guy doesn’t know how to talk to people without being hostile and accusatory. You will never change someone’s mind with that approach.

 

[Brando']

What I posted regarding the call is what was posted by the hunter on another website

You just got exposed Marty.

 

[SivvyB]

I can agree to these accusations and have seen more crowding. No more social media hunting consumption.

 

[Will_m]

Too bad you can't incorporate all the profiting of hunting through social media (and yes, hunting videos too) into the Lacy Act. It seems like market hunting to me. Just market hunting for this century.

Edited to say: Somebody with some knowledge please start a petition for this.

I know somebody out there has the time and know how to do this.

 

[CMP70306]

Too bad you can't incorporate all the profiting of hunting through social media (and yes, hunting videos too) into the Lacy Act. It seems like market hunting to me. Just market hunting for this century.

Edited to say: Somebody with some knowledge please start a petition for this.

I know somebody out there has the time and know how to do this.

Market hunting was banned because the product you are selling was the animal itself and the only way to make more money was to kill more animals. There was no reasonable way to earn a living that could be met within the confines of a reasonably sustainable bag limits. Additionally unregulated market hunting nearly wiped out the majority of the game animals in the country.

By contrast for much of the social media hunters the animals themselves are secondary if they are involved at all. The main product is the knowledge, expertise, charisma and story of the individual and how advertisers can use that to sell their product. In a way it’s no different than guys like Theodore Roosevelt, Jack O’Conner and Peter Capstick selling their books and articles about their exploits while hunting. Or guys like Fred Bear who pushed to get archery hunting allowed in many states helping to pave the way for the seasons we have today while also selling archery equipment to the very people he convinced to start hunting with a bow.

The big question is where exactly do you draw the line? If profiting off hunting through social media is the sole decider then you could conceivably convict every single facet of the entire market as a whole. With the reduction of print media and traditional television social media is currently the best way for advertisements to reach your intended audience. This could also have multiple unintended consequences depending on who gets to decide what is considered profiting.

Take for example hunting dog trainers, they primarily sell dog training information and equipment. Many of them have social media pages where they show training tips and ads for the products they sell. However because the dogs they are training are used for hunting that would be profiting off hunting and as a result would be in violation of the law.

I get people don’t like social media hunters blowing up their spots but to consider them the same as market hunters is disingenuous at best and passing such a law would have far reaching effects on how hunting is portrayed going forward.