Mark's Glock was empty

[Coach Chris]

10mm Glock 'fully functional' in fatal grizzly attack | WyoFile

 

[aaro9991]

Man that was a tough read. If only they both had accessible spray or firearms. I have never encountered a grizzly but would doesn’t a 10 mil seem too small? I know you can fire rounds off fast tho compared to a revolver


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[Coach Chris]

A 10mm with hardcast bullets is a good grizz round. Are there better? Sure.

 

[Wapiti1]

We'll never know if he intentionally left the chamber empty, or just forgot. I suppose it doesn't matter at this point, but is a question in my mind.

Aaro9991, no a 10mm isn't too small. It's about as good as anything else provided you load the right ammo. No handgun is big enough to stop an attack reliably. You're just buying time to get away. Same with pepper spray. It buys you time to do something other than just get mauled.

Vigilance to not allow a bad situation and easy access to defense are your best options.

Jeremy

 

[Superkodiak38]

Unfortunate set of circumstances, just drives home the point to train like your life depends on it. Having a gun and being able to use it under a stressful set of circumstances are two different things.

 

[Phaseolus]

Not arming the client with bear spray...

 

[realunlucky]

Not arming the client with bear spray...

They both had spray? The client had the Glock pistol in his hand only couldn't make it operate.

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[Shrek]

Not arming the client with bear spray...

Client had bear spray...in his pack. An empty chamber pistol a few feet away and bear spray in their packs means they left themselves defenseless. 10mm with hard cast bullets loaded hot with a heavier spring to handle the loads is a potent tool. Uptain made some serious mistakes that cost him his life. Early season elk with grizzlies running all over the place would make me want to have someone with a high power rifle standing guard while I break down an animal if possible. Especially an animal that had been left in the field overnight.

 

[Shrek]

This scenario is becoming more and more common. A hunting partners brother and guide had to shoot and kill a charging grizzly this past season outside of Duboise Wy this fall while cleaning an elk. Came in charging without warning. Shot the bear at about 30’ and the bear slide to a stop about 5’ short him. Everything happened in just a couple of seconds. They had their rifles laying on the carcass as they worked so they were right there when they were needed. The investigation hasn’t been completed so he doesn’t want to say much to anyone other than be prepared.

 

[Jimbob]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

What about your rifle, do you have one in the chamber as well?

Hunting deer and moose in Ontario we still hunted through thick timber and you always had one in the chamber. This was needed for speed and sometimes you would sneak right up to animals and racking a shell would be way too loud. From videos, I see many western spot and stalk guys not have one in the chamber because it is safer and they have plenty of time once they begin their stalk.

One common factor of bear attacks is the speed at which they happen, hard to process and think in that situation. In bear country, I am in favour of always having a bullet in the chamber.

 

[slick]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

What about your rifle, do you have one in the chamber as well?.

Yea & yes. I don’t carry two firearms though. Either spray and pistol during archery season, or rifle and spray during firearms season. I have a friend who carries 3 cans of spray. Two on his hip and one in his pack, he hunts just outside of Yellowstone and frequently runs into bears during the archery season. His thought is if he uses one, there’s the potential to use another one. This fella kills elk in the heart of bear country every single year.

Edit: it’s a sad deal, and don’t wish it on anyone.

 

[Beendare]

Lots to learn here for those of us that hunt in these areas around Yellowstone.

Communication and being alert and ready is THE critical factor, IMO. The lookout has to be constantly scanning...and have a weapon in his hand and know how to use it.

Lots of guys pack Revolvers on an empty chamber to protect against the hammer getting grabbed- makes sense.

This thinking has carried over to Semi Autos....which is a bad idea for many reasons. You are assuming you will have two hands to manipulate the slide...when in many Concealed carry and/or woods situations such as this.....that isn't the case.

Its worth noting, most accidents with Semi autos happen when reholstering. Clothing [your finger!] or something gets caught in the trigger guard discharging the weapon. A slow deliberate reholstering is the best technique....no need to be in a hurry.

 

[Savage99]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

What about your rifle, do you have one in the chamber as well?

Yes and it it depends. My pistol is always in a holster and I don’t carry pistols with safeties. For what little bit of rifle hunting I’ve done here in CO, I do a lot more carrying the rifle than using it. For fighting rifles it’s usually chamber loaded rifle on safe when slung or held while walking. But, that’s the way you would train. I’m certainly guilty of not training for defense use with my hunting rifle.

Lots to learn here for those of us that hunt in these areas around Yellowstone.

Communication and being alert and ready is THE critical factor, IMO. The lookout has to be constantly scanning...and have a weapon in his hand and know how to use it.

Lots of guys pack Revolvers on an empty chamber to protect against the hammer getting grabbed- makes sense.

This thinking has carried over to Semi Autos....which is a bad idea for many reasons. You are assuming you will have two hands to manipulate the slide...when in many Concealed carry and/or woods situations such as this.....that isn't the case.

Its worth noting, most accidents with Semi autos happen when reholstering. Clothing [your finger!] or something gets caught in the trigger guard discharging the weapon. A slow deliberate reholstering is the best technique....no need to be in a hurry.

You’ve hit correctly here. I’ll add, “re-holster reluctantly”.



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[TexasCub]

Sadly a lot of mistakes were made here, some I don’t quite understand. I have field dressed a buck while my partner did nothing else but stand with rifle in hand as a lookout on Kodiak Island knowing bears were nearby. If you are hunting in an area known to have a healthy griz population and you are literally butchering one of their favorite foods not having loaded weapons and or spray (if that’s your thing) at the ready and I don’t mean an empty chamber seems crazy to me. I’m not an advocate of carrying loaded in the mountains because too many things can happen that are dangerous but for gods sake when you have an animal down that’s bled and sat overnight in bear country you gotta use better common sense. Very sad that the client wasn’t able to use that 10mm to save the guides life. He may have been mauled but he could have survived. I know a guy that was attacked by a monster brown bear on Kodiak that he had just shot and even with the bear on top of him his partner was able to kill the bear, the bullet did blow through the bear and shatter his buddies tib and fib but at least he lived. Gotta use your head when you put yourself in vulnerable situations in which you are no longer at the top of the food chain.

 

[silverbullet555]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

What about your rifle, do you have one in the chamber as well?

Yes and yes. If not in the chamber, there is no point. These things happen so fast that sometimes a shot with a loaded chamber is challenging or impossible. Let alone racking a slide. Also, safety off, and I wouldn't use a 1911 style with an exposed hammer, but that's me.


This line was tough to imagine.

“He had an incisor piercing his brain that we feel is the fatal injury,”


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[ezmorningrebel]

That's awful to read.


I don't own a Glock but I'm assuming if you pulled on the trigger without it having been racked it would feel like there was a safety on to someone unfamiliar. Sounds like that may have happened and the guy hit the mag release thinking it was a safety.

 

[5MilesBack]

For you guys that carry do you always keep one in the chamber?

Yes, and I carry a Glock 20 most every day. While archery hunting it never leaves my hip. So if I set my pack down to work, it's still on my hip. This was the biggest mistake I see the guide making. It's always easy to second guess things that happened, but being in grizz country should make you think about these types of things well ahead of time.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Yes and yes. Always loaded or leave it in the truck.

I wear my g29 on my pack belt so it comes off when my pack comes off. Being in a non-grizzly state I’ll take the better weight distribution or having it on my pack. If I was in grizzly country it would be in a chest rig and would be taken off when I go back to the truck.

 

[mvmnts]

A gun without a round in the chamber is completely useless in self defense. No manual safeties either. There is no time. I don't know that my rifle is drop safe and I don't hunt in grizzly country so I don't carry one in the chamber. If I did, I might reconsider keeping one in there. I carry on a daily basis and always one in the chamber. Have a good gun and a good holster and there's no reason not to. Sounds like there wasn't one in the chamber, and he wasn't trained enough to have the forethought to rack the slide. Which makes sense since he wasn't carrying it. One of the take aways that the meateater guys brought home from their bear encounter is that you have to have your gun on your person, preferably in your chest rig 100% of the time, otherwise it's pretty much pointless as well. That's probably a pretty good guideline, and it seems like Uptain probably had his gun off for some time.

 

[mvmnts]

That's awful to read.


I don't own a Glock but I'm assuming if you pulled on the trigger without it having been racked it would feel like there was a safety on to someone unfamiliar. Sounds like that may have happened and the guy hit the mag release thinking it was a safety.

If it was cocked, it would click like it was empty. If it wasn't, the trigger would be back and there would be no pull. My guess is that it was cocked and felt empty on the 'click'.