Map scouting/planning - time spent?

[elkyinzer]

I didn’t want to hijack Les’ thread about learning to elk hunt, which is a great thread by the way, but it got me thinking….

Online/map scouting/planning seems to be the most common obstacle that intimidates people. It was for me at first too.

What amount of time do you spend planning a hunt in a new area? From the time you decide "I am going hunting" to the end, so including state/unit research.

What amount of time do you spend assessing statistics vs. maps and other resources?

I would say my two forays into new areas I averaged around 40 hours planning per hunt. Beyond that I've done research over time in states I have points/future plans in, plus areas close to home and all that together I would say I easily spend 50 hours some years spread out over many online resources. I have a photographic memory that jives well with maps and I am now pretty familiar with large swaths of the West thanks to this wonderful technology, so that “bank” of information will pay dividends and make my research more efficient over time.

I spend probably 95% of my time on maps and only check the statistics to make sure nothing crazy jumps out at me once I find a desirable area. I couple that with extensive Googling to find reports on the area from wildlife managers, biologists, foresters, fire agencies, really anything that gives me some insight into the habitat which is my #1 concern because good habitat will hold animals, period. Hell maybe I would be just as well off throwing a dart at a map but I enjoy it as part of the scouting process anyway and I think these internet resources have made me a better hunter. I guess I'm stressing that to me, to do the process right is a huge time investment, and I am not sure some people realize just how much time that process takes.

 

[wapitibob]

I look at stats very little wth the exception of odds.

 

[Beendare]

I look at stats very little wth the exception of odds.

Yeah, me too.

i partially disagree with the OP on one thing, "Good habitat". I look more at roads, entry/access points, trail access....then i look for spots where the elk will go FROM the good habitat....TO the areas with less pressure.

Unless its a very limited draw unit or private ground ...the #1 factor in almost all of these areas is 'hunter pressure'

 

[elkyinzer]

Yeah, me too.

i partially disagree with the OP on one thing, "Good habitat". I look more at roads, entry/access points, trail access....then i look for spots where the elk will go FROM the good habitat....TO the areas with less pressure.

Unless its a very limited draw unit or private ground ...the #1 factor in almost all of these areas is 'hunter pressure'

Yeah, good point, I am definitely prioritizing certain traits about access points, but not so much anticipation of animal movement as a result of pressure. I am guessing you are talking about rifle hunts? My mind lives in archery world so I am looking for unpressured animals and don't care to hunt the high pressure areas.

 

[jlrichesin]

Yeah, good point, I am definitely prioritizing certain traits about access points, but not so much anticipation of animal movement as a result of pressure. I am guessing you are talking about rifle hunts? My mind lives in archery world so I am looking for unpressured animals and don't care to hunt the high pressure areas.

I agree with this, as an archery hunter, I try to get as little pressure as possible and be as mobile as possible.

 

[Beendare]

Yeah, good point, I am definitely prioritizing certain traits about access points, but not so much anticipation of animal movement as a result of pressure. I am guessing you are talking about rifle hunts? My mind lives in archery world so I am looking for unpressured animals and don't care to hunt the high pressure areas.

I've been bowhunting the western states for 3 decades......have you hunted a general or OTC tag lately? grin

This is one of the few solutions I've found to consistently get away from bowhunting pressure on public ground.....

 

[elkyinzer]

I've been bowhunting the western states for 3 decades......have you hunted a general or OTC tag lately? grin

This is one of the few solutions I've found to consistently get away from bowhunting pressure on public ground.....
View attachment 42043

I learned my solution in 6th grade algebra: slope = rise/run. Steep trumps deep every time for getting away from the jabronies.

 

[dirtytough]

I spend hours looking at maps and zoom earth. Not sure how many per year but it's probably 100+. I look for areas without roads or trails and go from there. I have never looked at stats except draw odds. I don't care because lots of guys lie or it's a crappy state system like Colorado's which isn't accurate anyway.

 

[BackcountryMT]

Yeah, me too.

i partially disagree with the OP on one thing, "Good habitat". I look more at roads, entry/access points, trail access....then i look for spots where the elk will go FROM the good habitat....TO the areas with less pressure.

Unless its a very limited draw unit or private ground ...the #1 factor in almost all of these areas is 'hunter pressure'

So are you saying to disregard habitat(to an extent) and simply look for isolated areas elk might seek refuge from pressure?

 

[the big Mao]

I'll begin with stats-success percentages and that sort of stuff. Drawing here well....most of us consider it a joke, where Fish&Game gives us the "opportunity" (better odds in Vegas), to pony up $$ for the lottery. Then I'll see how much of it's private land, hit the maps, and go from there. However, for me, boots on the ground is my best method. Luckily I live close to some decent elk and deer habitat.

 

[les welch]

I'll begin with don't EVER feel like you're hijacking any of my threads. I welcome all ideas, opinions, and spin offs to my thoughts.

These types of threads are great. They really help people learn and promote thinking differently.

For me I spend hundreds of hours looking at GE, Garmin BaseCamp, Bing, Wilderness.net, and especially maps. When I first started this I would use maps to look for where roads went, and maybe where water was. I honestly knew nothing about it. I learned a lot from my buddy who has been a surveyor for 30 years. Now I LOVE to read maps. It's fun to cross them with GE, and very efficient to cross with GE and boots on the ground.

I was in a new area in WY this year. Had a great hunt, actually the best hunt I've ever been on for elk. Since I've returned I've pulled my maps out and my GPS. On my double 22" monitors at work I pull up GE. I look at that and compare to the maps. I've trimmed out waypoints that I don't need. I've added all my useful waypoints to my hard maps, and to Base Camp. More importantly I've made notes on the maps and in Word (in case maps get destroyed) so that I can recall in coming years what important info pertained to the waypoints.

As far as %/or odds go. I don't even bother. There are so many variables that attribute to those that IMO they don't mean much. If I was going to lean towards a % I would actually look towards the units with low % of success.

Good thread!

 

[xziang]

I probably spend as much time as you do with new areas. Probably 30-40hrs on google earth and maps. I find it handy to plug laptop into my the TV to get a bigger screen to look at.

I also order maps via mytopo.com I also got a bunch of time transferring GPS points of interest from google earth to my handheld GPS.

I 'look' at statistics but I spend more time on google earth bing maps looking at trailheads at different time periods to see how busy they are along with finding 'trails' water holes etc.

 

[elkyinzer]

Les I also find the post-hunt map analysis to be extremely valuable. Each time I return from a hunt I sit down and pour over the maps while the hunt is fresh in my head. This year when we went on our second trip to the same area that really paid off.

I agree with the couple guys that said a big screen helps. I have a 20 some inch monitor and the usability of GE and topo maps on that is much better than on my laptop. Usually I'll have dual screen with GE and topo maps going at the same time.

The more I think about it the more I think I may be underestimating how much time I spend map scouting. Even around home there is so much public land I am constantly scouting new areas, it will take me a lifetime to cover it all. Don't get me wrong I spend a ton of time with boots on the ground also, but the map analysis just make that process far more efficient. Can I complain that Google Earth needs to have photos taken in the winter time? Depending on the area playing with the image date some places I can get it and some places I can't. It is far easier to scout a place when the leaves are down but most of the photos are in the height of summer.

My GPS waypoints along with my photo library are frequently backed up onto "the cloud" along with a flash drive. My waypoints are among my most valued possessions, had a computer crash once and learned that lesson the hard way. I sync my waypoints between Google Earth and Garmin Basecamp then transfer whichever ones I need onto my GPS.

 

[gelton]

Great thread. One thing I do is mark waypoints of every elk I have ever spotted along with the time and date. Great info for future reference.

 

[Beendare]

So are you saying to disregard habitat(to an extent) and simply look for isolated areas elk might seek refuge from pressure?

Depends. I'm just going by my experience of DIY hunts on public ground....there is never a '100% right' answer on any of these questions. Guys shoot elk right off the road every year. i pretty much hunt a new area every year just to see as much different country in my lifetime....which i don't recommend if you want to be successful on a reg basis. Better to find a decent area and learn it. i like to go into a new area and figure it out...which doesn't always happen BTW.

Habitat; If you are hunting opening day that habitat becomes more important. I've just seen it too many times....that once into the season those prime areas have a ton of old elk crap...and no elk...or maybe they are using it at night. Areas that "Should" be ideal elk areas devoid of elk....but then you find them in some steep and deep spot....or an overlooked pocket right off the freeway....or some spot that is tough for the avg guy to get to...that kind of thing.

So when scouting on GE or maps and such....sure I look at habitat...and areas that will hold a lot of elk....but I don't concentrate on the habitat if that makes sense. and as to the "Time Spent' question....there are times....like when i drew a 76 archery elk tag... we trekked into a canyon in the weiminuche 8 miles in ...and it felt like I had been there before....I had flown it so many times on GE! So yeah i spend hours looking at that stuff. But...and its a big BUT....there is no substitute for lacing up you boots and covering ground.

 

[Stwrt9]

i agree with Les there are also too many variables that go into those statistics that can be misleading. i would possibly reference them with a quick glance over but only with a grain of salt.

It's hard to put a number on the actual amount of hours i spend researching for my elk hunt this year cause it was a lot. I will say that we went out to CO with a game plan for a particular unit that i spent the majority of my time researching. When we arrived i felt as if i knew the area as if i had been there before. the only problem was as well as i knew the area as it pertained to topography i had zero idea as to where the elk would be. When we found no elk we also abandoned Plans B, C, D, you get the idea, based on what my eyes could see and not what i saw on a map. After some deliberation we decided to drastically change gears and move units after all this was our first trip and we were also using this trip as a learning/scouting/future referencing/hopefully hunting trip. We moved to a unit in a completely different part of the state, which turned out to be the best decision as we finally got into the elk. the last 2 units we hunted we found by heading to town where we could find some internet service, hopped on gohunt and onXmaps picked a spot and went for it. One place sucked and the last was great. What i'm getting at is you can do all the scouting in the world but until you actually step foot in that particular area you really have no idea what your getting into. In the end it all comes down to what your willing to settle for and what your willing to work for.

When it comes to maps I have to admit that I really like Hillmap.com and Google Earth is obviously King, but researching new areas sometimes i'm left wishing that gohunt, google earth, onXmaps got together and had a baby so there wasn't so much back and forth.

as Les and Elkyinzer stated earlier it is extremely valuable advise as to post-hunt going back over your maps, way points, etc. and form a reference of what worked future hunts, this is truly good stuff!!

 

[Violent Hippie]

Map reading is something I do almost daily and I actually have assorted maps in the that I read while in the head. With that said I rely on topo map reading for probably 75 %of my scouting areas I have never been too. Pretty "old school" I guess but I enjoy it and I do pretty alright archery hunting blacktail in the Sierra OTC in zones that have real shitty success rates.

 

[outdoor_matt]

Being new to the western hunting scene probably added a bit more time to my scouting procedure than normal. I did 2 overnight scouting trips this summer (it's about 2.5 hrs away), and a ton of time pouring over google earth, google topo maps, etc. I just focused on the trails I could see on Google Earth and then marked points as far as possible from those trails.

I have found, though, that elevation makes the most difference for getting away from people. There are plenty of quad trails back here where I hunt so access is great for almost everyone. Once you start climbing, though, you can then get into a different range/hill system completely and find lots of wide open space.

 

[5MilesBack]

I had 2.5 years of different stats classes in college, but I don't even look at the hunting stats much except for number of tags issued, and preference point info. I could care less about harvest stats.

I'm a map junky, have been my whole life. Probably my dad's fault, he was a map guy as well but not a hunter. Online is OK for some stuff, but I like a map laid out in front of me.

This year I picked up a leftover tag in August in a unit I had never hunted, scouted, and barely set foot in. So I spent some time with the maps since I wasn't going to be able to scout it before the season started. I was going to get a custom map done on mytopo, but I ran out of time before it would have gotten to me. But I probably spent maybe 10 hours studying different maps and coming up with about a dozen game plans. Then when I got on scene I started checking those off the list or at least verifying what I saw on the maps. Then I adjust from there based on what I'm seeing and experiencing. I almost always add spots to my options once I actually see it all in person.

 

[Violent Hippie]

Yeah. I've never really factored in "success" stats at all either. Map reading is # 1 and the "vibe" I get when I finally get boots on the ground in the area I have been researching is another huge factor that works for me. Some areas just don't feel right and I'll move to the back up location I have already researched . I too rely on actual hard copy maps and typically make my own at home and print out on weather proof paper. For some reason I am not a fan of digital. Seems to a lot of other options but I keep it basic and it works for me.