Magnets GPS Debate Bino harness

[Bluumoon]

Marsupial magnets/onX/iPhone took me for a long crappy detour through blow down a couple years ago. I should have ignored the phone as I knew the general direction.

Magnet interference is real. Magnets on Bino harness are dumb.

Stone Glacier harness is working well for me.

 

[taskswap]

The magnets on my phone case are 10x stronger then marsupial, I literally run onx while my phone is stuck to the roll cage of my Mule pro….. zero issues there or using it at night with blue cone walking out

This.

Couple things. First, magnetic fields aren't a permanent effect. If you hold a magnet near a compass it can cause it to read incorrectly, but when you take the magnet away, the compass works again.

The same will happen with your phone. If you put it in a bino pouch that has a magnetic enclosure it might throw the compass off - but only while it's in the pouch. Magnetic fields diminish with the square of the distance (aka "very quickly"). So if you take your phone out and hold it a foot or two away, those fields shouldn't affect it any longer.

Second, one would assume you don't look at your phone for its compass readings while it is IN your bino harness. You take it out to look at it. Just don't hold it right next to your harness. Problem solved.

The compass and GPS functions are completely unrelated. Your tracking apps will use GPS data - the compass is nearly always just for things like live orientation while looking at the map (if you do e.g. "facing-direction-up" instead of "north up"). It will still track your routes/location properly.

While we're on the topic everyone should bear in mind that modern phones have TWO GPS data sources - true GPS receivers and cell-tower triangulation (plus a few other signals in more modern phones). The phone will constantly integrate the two because GPS signals are notoriously susceptible to interference from things like trees or buildings and the receiver chips take a lot of power. So for "most people, most of the time" it makes sense to rely mostly on land-based triangulation methods.

In the field, we become the edge cases. Cell towers are often rare or very distant, and GPS is easier to receive due to (usually) fewer obstructions. But the phone doesn't know that. I see posts all the time about power savings and how much the GPS uses, but in the field you want to go into airplane mode / shut off your cell service.

When a cell tower is very distant your phone's cellular modem will go into a higher-power mode to try to reach what ti can. This is a HUGE battery drain and can often drain a modern phone in less than a day. I can sometimes get nearly 5 days of run time on a single charge by staying in airplane mode, setting my GPS tracking apps to less frequent intervals (once every 5-10 mins rather than once every minute / 100' traveled), and referring to it sparingly (the display uses a lot of juice, too).

 

[Bluumoon]

This.

Couple things. First, magnetic fields aren't a permanent effect. If you hold a magnet near a compass it can cause it to read incorrectly, but when you take the magnet away, the compass works again.

The same will happen with your phone. If you put it in a bino pouch that has a magnetic enclosure it might throw the compass off - but only while it's in the pouch. Magnetic fields diminish with the square of the distance (aka "very quickly"). So if you take your phone out and hold it a foot or two away, those fields shouldn't affect it any longer.

Second, one would assume you don't look at your phone for its compass readings while it is IN your bino harness. You take it out to look at it. Just don't hold it right next to your harness. Problem solved.

The compass and GPS functions are completely unrelated. Your tracking apps will use GPS data - the compass is nearly always just for things like live orientation while looking at the map (if you do e.g. "facing-direction-up" instead of "north up"). It will still track your routes/location properly.

While we're on the topic everyone should bear in mind that modern phones have TWO GPS data sources - true GPS receivers and cell-tower triangulation (plus a few other signals in more modern phones). The phone will constantly integrate the two because GPS signals are notoriously susceptible to interference from things like trees or buildings and the receiver chips take a lot of power. So for "most people, most of the time" it makes sense to rely mostly on land-based triangulation methods.

In the field, we become the edge cases. Cell towers are often rare or very distant, and GPS is easier to receive due to (usually) fewer obstructions. But the phone doesn't know that. I see posts all the time about power savings and how much the GPS uses, but in the field you want to go into airplane mode / shut off your cell service.

When a cell tower is very distant your phone's cellular modem will go into a higher-power mode to try to reach what ti can. This is a HUGE battery drain and can often drain a modern phone in less than a day. I can sometimes get nearly 5 days of run time on a single charge by staying in airplane mode, setting my GPS tracking apps to less frequent intervals (once every 5-10 mins rather than once every minute / 100' traveled), and referring to it sparingly (the display uses a lot of juice, too).

In my case I had to hold the phone at arms length to defeat the interference.

 

[taskswap]

In my case I had to hold the phone at arms length to defeat the interference.

I would imagine that's much more likely due to other ferrous items in your kit than magnetic enclosures.

Neodymium magnets are widely used in applications like this because they pack a lot of "gauss" in a small puck. They're rated in grades, typically N35 being on the low end and N52 on the high. Since those are expensive most consumer products use something in the N42-N48 range.

See https://www.kjmagnetics.com/magnet-strength-calculator.asp. An N48, somewhat on the high end for the sake of the argument, at 0.25" dia and 0.125" thick is at the high end of "affordably strong" but is barely detectable past an inch away from it. There's a reason these things don't wipe your credit cards. You can prove this yourself by just getting a few "rare earth magnets" from any source and placing some random other magnets / paper clips a quarter inch, an inch, a foot, etc away. Past a few inches they won't make a difference at all.

What a lot of folks don't realize is that the Earth's magnetic field is actually quite weak. An N48 magnet is like 13k gauss. The Earth's magnetic field is like 0.5 - thousands of times weaker. The only reason a compass registers it at all is because its field is enormous - it extends 40,000 miles above the Earth's surface. A paltry N48 disc magnet is thousands of times stronger, but only detectable an inch away. So here's the thing. You may not detect other MAGNETS a foot or two away from your body. But all ferrous items on your person will disrupt Earth's magnetic field for a fair distance away from your torso. Your rifle, binoculars, hunting knife, and all those other items will bend the lines of magnetic force for quite some distance from you even if they're not magnets themselves. This makes it easy to blame a bino harness when it's really all the other stuff on you.

Either way, holding your compass or phone away from you a fair ways is smart anyway. But it's almost certainly not the magnetic enclosures in your bino harness causing the problem.

 

[jadkins223]

I would imagine that's much more likely due to other ferrous items in your kit than magnetic enclosures.

Neodymium magnets are widely used in applications like this because they pack a lot of "gauss" in a small puck. They're rated in grades, typically N35 being on the low end and N52 on the high. Since those are expensive most consumer products use something in the N42-N48 range.

See https://www.kjmagnetics.com/magnet-strength-calculator.asp. An N48, somewhat on the high end for the sake of the argument, at 0.25" dia and 0.125" thick is at the high end of "affordably strong" but is barely detectable past an inch away from it. There's a reason these things don't wipe your credit cards. You can prove this yourself by just getting a few "rare earth magnets" from any source and placing some random other magnets / paper clips a quarter inch, an inch, a foot, etc away. Past a few inches they won't make a difference at all.

What a lot of folks don't realize is that the Earth's magnetic field is actually quite weak. An N48 magnet is like 13k gauss. The Earth's magnetic field is like 0.5 - thousands of times weaker. The only reason a compass registers it at all is because its field is enormous - it extends 40,000 miles above the Earth's surface. A paltry N48 disc magnet is thousands of times stronger, but only detectable an inch away. So here's the thing. You may not detect other MAGNETS a foot or two away from your body. But all ferrous items on your person will disrupt Earth's magnetic field for a fair distance away from your torso. Your rifle, binoculars, hunting knife, and all those other items will bend the lines of magnetic force for quite some distance from you even if they're not magnets themselves. This makes it easy to blame a bino harness when it's really all the other stuff on you.

Either way, holding your compass or phone away from you a fair ways is smart anyway. But it's almost certainly not the magnetic enclosures in your bino harness causing the problem.

Thank you for the detailed reply.

If it’s not magnets, how do you explain what’s going on in this video ? I’m genuine asking. Thank you again


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[Bluumoon]

I would imagine that's much more likely due to other ferrous items in your kit than magnetic enclosures.

Neodymium magnets are widely used in applications like this because they pack a lot of "gauss" in a small puck. They're rated in grades, typically N35 being on the low end and N52 on the high. Since those are expensive most consumer products use something in the N42-N48 range.

See https://www.kjmagnetics.com/magnet-strength-calculator.asp. An N48, somewhat on the high end for the sake of the argument, at 0.25" dia and 0.125" thick is at the high end of "affordably strong" but is barely detectable past an inch away from it. There's a reason these things don't wipe your credit cards. You can prove this yourself by just getting a few "rare earth magnets" from any source and placing some random other magnets / paper clips a quarter inch, an inch, a foot, etc away. Past a few inches they won't make a difference at all.

What a lot of folks don't realize is that the Earth's magnetic field is actually quite weak. An N48 magnet is like 13k gauss. The Earth's magnetic field is like 0.5 - thousands of times weaker. The only reason a compass registers it at all is because its field is enormous - it extends 40,000 miles above the Earth's surface. A paltry N48 disc magnet is thousands of times stronger, but only detectable an inch away. So here's the thing. You may not detect other MAGNETS a foot or two away from your body. But all ferrous items on your person will disrupt Earth's magnetic field for a fair distance away from your torso. Your rifle, binoculars, hunting knife, and all those other items will bend the lines of magnetic force for quite some distance from you even if they're not magnets themselves. This makes it easy to blame a bino harness when it's really all the other stuff on you.

Either way, holding your compass or phone away from you a fair ways is smart anyway. But it's almost certainly not the magnetic enclosures in your bino harness causing the problem.

Likely my magnetic personality. I’m still bitter about that blowdown, maybe it wasn’t the Bino harness Haven’t had an issue since I switched.

 

[Speaks]

The magnets on my phone case are 10x stronger then marsupial, I literally run onx while my phone is stuck to the roll cage of my Mule pro….. zero issues there or using it at night with blue cone walking out

Right, this is what I keep thinking. Why would the case and all the mag safe stuff be fine but not those tiny case magnets.

 

[Bluumoon]

Google machine says I’m a good guesser. Mule deer bucks 2.5-3 yo 16-18” avg chest height. Mature bucks avg 18”

Bull elk avg 30” chest

 

[Koda_]

Some people want to record trac data while hiking, it baffles me why "experienced" outdoor companies use magnets in anything. It may or may not affect your exact device, doesn't mean its not an issue. Can also affect other electronics like sos beacons, avi beacons, etc.

FHF Pro-M bino harness is well made and non magnetic.

 

[Brooks]

I cut the magnets out of a Marsupial bino harness a couple of years ago. There were 3 of them in the flap and they are very strong magnets!

 

[velvet muley]

Okay, here is my personal experience. I wanted to purchase a marsupial no-mag last year for the same reason, the one I wanted was not available and I waited for months.

Finally got sick of waiting so I decided to get the magnet version and see what happened, I hunted all year with it and tested it right on the magnet throughout the year, never once did it affect anything.

That being said I have an I phone, not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

[Muleburger]

Okay, here is my personal experience. I wanted to purchase a marsupial no-mag last year for the same reason, the one I wanted was not available and I waited for months.

Finally got sick of waiting so I decided to get the magnet version and see what happened, I hunted all year with it and tested it right on the magnet throughout the year, never once did it affect anything.

That being said I have an I phone, not sure if that has anything to do with it.

Mine is an iPhone too. My troubles might not be the magnets. I’m going to buy a new harness this year, because I’m getting new binos. Going to get the zulu6 hdx 16x42. I want to try a harness without magnets that will fit my binos plus hopefully my range finder. Any suggestions?
Then I will have more data to tell me whether my magnets mess up my blue sight cone directionality.

 

[velvet muley]

KILO 3000 BDX 10x42	SMALL
ZULU 6 HDX 10x30	SMALL
ZULU 6 HDX 12X42	MEDIUM
ZULU 6 HDX 16X42	MEDIUM
ZULU 6 HDX 20X42	MEDIUM
ZULU6 HDX PRO OIS (ALL SIZES)	LARGE
KILO 10K ABS HD	SMALL

Right off of Marsupials website.

 

[jadkins223]

Mine is an iPhone too. My troubles might not be the magnets. I’m going to buy a new harness this year, because I’m getting new binos. Going to get the zulu6 hdx 16x42. I want to try a harness without magnets that will fit my binos plus hopefully my range finder. Any suggestions?
Then I will have more data to tell me whether my magnets mess up my blue sight cone directionality.

I too, am running the Zulu 16x42. I called marsupial. The medium no mag and medium enclosed is what they recommend for size.

The kuiu pro g3 is appealing looking. I had the kuiu pro for 3 weeks. It failed and I sent it back last week actually


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[jadkins223]

Do you guys see now why I’m having such a hard time picking a harness? Lol.


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[Muleburger]

I might try the marsupial no mag. Sounds good quality. Prob get the rangefinder pouch attachment too.

 

[jadkins223]

I might try the marsupial no mag. Sounds good quality. Prob get the rangefinder pouch attachment too.

This is the route I am leaning too. I called marsupial and said they will have a big sell July 4th ish


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[Pacific_Fork]

My harness has magnets. My phone and Inreach are 2 inches away from magnets at all times. Been this way for at least 12 years, I hunt/use my chest harness A LOT every year. No issues ever. So IMO it’s a myth.

 

[jadkins223]

I had issues with magnets affecting my phone's compass in OnX while packing out an elk a few years ago. It was very frustrating. We figured out the problem and made it to the truck. But, we were in new country, completely exhausted and dealing with weather at midnight. Not a good combination. Could have been worse if there was a medical issue. After that experience I prefer to keep magnets away form navigation equipment. My harness is an Alaska Guide Creations - Kodiak Cub Max. It has been great.

This situation is what I want to avoid. Thanks for sharing


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[TheTone]

Would it seemingly make any difference if you are carrying your phone in your harness vs somewhere else? I’ve always just carried my phone in a front pocket

I’ve been wanting a new harness and have it narrowed down to a kuiu g3 or a marsupial. Only real advantages I see with the kuiu are price and maybe the magnets for navigation