LPVO for an AR

[flyfisher117]

LPVOs just aren't fun in lowlight. I have 2 coyote uppers both with LPVOs. I try to love them but I can't. Mine are just low end LPVOs but after borrowing a couple top of the line I didn't see enough of a boost in low light performance to justify.

 

[Long Cut]

LVPO’s in my opinion shine for “game guns” I.E. Tactical Games, 3 Gun, etc… Take an LVPO into the field with low light conditions we commonly experience during hunts and they become marginal at best.

Sure on a wide open range at 2PM on a sunny day shooting white targets with green back drops they’re great, but trying to identify a brown deer with a brown backdrop in woods on an overcast evening… I’ll take a 3-15x42 or 3-9x42 over a 1-8x24 every single time.

We can play Entrance/Exit pupil diameter numbers all day but the 40-50mm objectives will walk away from the 24mm LVPO’s. Sure at 1-3x the LVPO has adequate light transmission, but a 50mm tube will offer the same light transmission out to 7-8x magnification.
Glass quality can only do so much when your objective is nearly half the size…

 

[justinspicher]

I think too many dudes try to make LVPOs work for something that they just aren’t intended to do and end up frustrated and spend more money than necessary.

Unless you take the time to really learn how to use your LVPO, a guy just won’t be as proficient as he could possibly be.

There’s always a trade off, just have to set your priorities.

 

[RockAndSage]

LVPO’s in my opinion shine for “game guns” I.E. Tactical Games, 3 Gun, etc… Take an LVPO into the field with low light conditions we commonly experience during hunts and they become marginal at best.

Sure on a wide open range at 2PM on a sunny day shooting white targets with green back drops they’re great, but trying to identify a brown deer with a brown backdrop in woods on an overcast evening… I’ll take a 3-15x42 or 3-9x42 over a 1-8x24 every single time.

We can play Entrance/Exit pupil diameter numbers all day but the 40-50mm objectives will walk away from the 24mm LVPO’s. Sure at 1-3x the LVPO has adequate light transmission, but a 50mm tube will offer the same light transmission out to 7-8x magnification.
Glass quality can only do so much when your objective is nearly half the size…

Largely agree, with one caveat...

I ended up with a Swarovski Z8i 1-8, because seeing in low light matters to me. And I saw so much of what you're describing above. But this Swaro is comparatively excellent - it's glass blows any other LPVO I've looked through completely out of the water, and it's damn capable in the realities of low-light field conditions.

But my Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x44 is far, far more crisp, clear, and capable in any low-light condition.

 

[justinspicher]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone is trying to shoot in a low light scenario. If you can’t see because it’s getting dark, how is an optic supposed to help you?

 

[RockAndSage]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone is trying to shoot in a low light scenario. If you can’t see because it’s getting dark, how is an optic supposed to help you?

If we're talking hunting, then it can matter on things anywhere from still having legal shoot-light but being in dark timber, to varmints, to predators. A lot depends on the species and circumstances, state laws, etc, whether you can hunt in low/no light, use of white light laws, etc.

Granted, for most people it just may not matter to them, or they may not have a need for it. But all it takes is one legal shot at a trophy buck, that you can see in your binos but can't see through your scope, to permanently value low-light capability.

 

[justinspicher]

If we're talking hunting, then it can matter on things anywhere from still having legal shoot-light but being in dark timber, to varmints, to predators. A lot depends on the species and circumstances, state laws, etc, whether you can hunt in low/no light, use of white light laws, etc.

Granted, for most people it just may not matter to them, or they may not have a need for it. But all it takes is one legal shot at a trophy buck, that you can see in your binos but can't see through your scope, to permanently value low-light capability.

This makes sense, it is what I kinda thought. I just didn’t want to assume.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Not a fan of LPVO for anything. I had one on my AR pistol and ran into some hogs one night, couldn't see a MFin thing and couldn't get a shot off even with plenty of time. It was a 1+6x24 and didn't matter illuminated or not I could not acquire the targets at about 50 yards. I just have a red dot on it now and it's much more useful. Fast forward to the next trip I put a cheapie Sig Buckmasters 3-9x40 on the SBR and walked back out to the same area in a very similar situation and could see well enough to get shots off even with the 3x opposed to 1 and ended up killing two. That was all I needed to know. I'm sure they're fine in the daylight.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I guess I don’t understand why everyone is trying to shoot in a low light scenario. If you can’t see because it’s getting dark, how is an optic supposed to help you?

Lotta guys put them on defense weapons. Hopefully for them the intruders will turn the lights on for them.

 

[cgw1984]

I really like the credo 1-8. The razor.1-6 is nice. I absolutely hate my atacr 1-8, and ive yet to find a 1-10 thats worth anything

 

[Fritz D]

I’ve a Credo 3-9x40 on an AR-10. Reticle is an illuminated mil type. Works great down at 3x and all the way up to 9x.

 

[justinspicher]

Now I want to go out and shoot in low light to see how bad my lvpos are.

 

[gbflyer]

Now I want to go out and shoot in low light to see how bad my lvpos are.

I use a Accupoint 1-4 in as low of light as I want to be in with no issue. I guess everyone has their own standards. I don’t like feeling my way through the brown bears heading back to the beach haha.

 

[hrhunter]

I've only been shooting an AR-15 for 25 years. The longest I've shot is 700 yards. I liked a Nightforce SHV 4-14 and Bushnell LRTS 4.5-18. I'm not shooting the long distances today and am a running a 1-6.

 

[justinspicher]

The biggest scope I have ever used on an AR is a 2.5-10x32, never felt under glassed. Depending on the rifle, I will use 1-4x or a 1-8x.

 

[RockAndSage]

Now I want to go out and shoot in low light to see how bad my lvpos are.

A few things you'll find generally with LPVOs:

• The cheaper the scope, the worse it does in low-light
• The higher the mag range between lowest and highest, the worse it does
• FFP generally does worse than SFP, especially with reticle usability
• A single dot of reticle illumination generally does better than the whole reticle being lit up, especially if your eyes' natural night-vision is fully engaged, after about 20 mins of no artificial light. Even on low-power settings.
• The shorter the LPVO is, the worse it tends to do
  

It's not an absolute thing of "does work at night/doesn't", but a spectrum of performance where each of these comes into play in relation to your environment. And, of course, you're balancing it all out for the overall needs you have for that gun and the environments you expect to be in.

 

[Long Cut]

If you truly want 0-50 yard effectiveness, a red dot mounted at the 12 o’clock or 45 degree position will provide significantly faster target acquisition than any LVPO could.

Now that 0-50 (and potentially further) is addressed, we can focus on a 2.5 or 3x minimum and add an NXS 2.5-10x42 or 3-15 SWFA to our list of potential optic options here.

Yes I’m biased for a red dot & MPVO combination over an LVPO for hunting optic applications for an AR15, aside from competition/SD use. Especially for an 18” gun like OP is addressing here….

Light gathering matters when many States allow hunting 30 minutes before and 30 minutes after legal sunset. Coincidentally that’s when Whitetail deer, the most hunting big game animal in North America move the most on their feet.
Most of the Eastern United States is over 70% forests, reducing light gathering ability for our eyes and optics.

-Why choose an optic that handicaps you during a time period when you’re most likely to use it?

-Why choose an optic that has a lower magnification range for target acquisition and to spot bullet impacts?

-Would it not be more beneficial to add a mount and red dot to cater for those one-off chances you encounter something up close?

Food for thought here.