Low light comparison of 10 scopes

[Formidilosus]

If you were a deep woods hunter wouldn’t you just buy an SFP scope? Or stick with a fixed power?

Sure. But that really wasn’t the reason for this, or at least not the entire reason, and three of the five most useful scopes in this group were FFP- SWFA 3-9x, 3-15x, and ZP5. One does not have to suffer SFP to get a usable reticle on low power.

The main thing is- “does the difference from decent to good “glass”, to “really good glass” change what can be shot in low light? The answer is no- once decent brightness and clarity has been achieved, the failure is alsmit never due to “glass”. In one S2H class last year, guys were shooting over an hour after sunset (in the dark), and the determiner of who had trouble was reticle- not who was shooting the best “glass”.

Then the question becomes what is the failure? And that is primarily driven by reticle. SFP isn’t a cure all for this- there are lots of bad SFP reticles. Not many people complain about Leupold’s standard duplex in their scopes- yet the MQ reticle in the SWFA 3-9x is twice as thick on the outer bars, which is what centers you eye. The out bars on the SWFA 6x, 10x and 3-15x, are also as thick or thicker. The only real way to improve on the MQ reticle for low light, woods use is to bring the outer posts to 3 mils or so from center instead of 6.

 

[TxLite]

If I’m being honest, I just turn on my illumination if the light is low. Being able to tell buck/doe is important and where I hunt the bucks need to have a 13” spread or 1 unbranched antler. As long as the illumination doesn’t wash out the image the ability to make out my target is more important to me than focusing on some of the minutia between reticles w/o illumination.

That being said I’ve been very happy with my sfp 50mm tenmile for low light (with illumination set low).

 

[Mtndawger]

Thank you for confirming that all these crazy reticles don't help at all. It's another effect of the market trying to increase sales by pushing everything long-distance. The Steiner scopes come to mind, the H (hunter) series-- they look like excellent scopes but not a single one has a "normal" reticle for hunting. It's a non-starter.

The German 4a reticle is the best one I've ever used, but it's like most scope manufacturers, certainly the American ones, won't touch it out of general principle. How can you market it as long distance if you don't have a Christmas tree reticle?

-Stooxie

I have had my eye on the Steiner H6xi 2-12x42. I think that reticle is an attempt to do what the OP is pushing for. Those thick lines would most likely direct your eye toward center on low light at low power. My only issue with it is that the top of the vertical post should be more like 2or 3 moa from center not 1 moa. I hunted with a Trijicon that had a triangle on top of a post and hated how it distracted field of view. And the MIL version is a complete joke with those .1 mil hash marks. Other than that it is really well built and relatively light @ 23-24 oz. Don’t know if it will hold zero.

 

[FB Trout]

Thank you for taking the time and considerable effort to do this, it is much appreciated.

 

[prm]

Thanks for sharing. In my many comparisons, the conclusion I’ve come to is any scope with glass equal to or better than a Burris FFII or Leupold VX2, and a ~40mm obj or greater, is likely adequate for hunting +\-30 min. However, not many reticles will enable quick, easy aiming at last light. Even some illuminated reticles are mechanized such that quickly having proper illumination can be difficult (if not already on and set).

 

[bbell]

@Formidilosus my last post I didn’t pose my question very well.
If your normal hunting time was an hour after sunset instead of 30min do think the 8x56 would be the way to go over the smaller objectives?
Thanks for doing these reviews and comparisons.

 

[Fatcamp]

Hmmmm. Thinking about hunting coyotes under moonlight with snow cover.

That S&B might be the one.

 

[5811]

@Formidilosus were all the lenses cleaned prior to the evaluation? I only ask because they look well used and given your general cleaning philosophy it may be a variable.

I have no idea if it would change your conclusion because it has no effect on reticle design but may have some swing in the "can maybe tell sex" gray area. But I honestly don't know how much it matters in your evaluation, if at all.

 

[Tod osier]

Thanks for doing the test and sharing the results, especially the care to explain what low light conditions you were working with.

I shot a great buck that I'd been looking for years - 25 minutes after sunset in a place where the sun sets just a few minutes before sunset, looking west into the shadow of the hill the sun sets behind in the shadow of a hemlock grove while the buck was working a scrape at 40 yards. This was hands down the darkest I've ever shot a deer. I didn't realize it at the time, but I cranked up the magnification on the SWFA 3-9 to be able to make the shot, I found the scope that way the next day. I thought about not shooting, but was very glad i was able to. I've shot deer at similar times after or before sunset/sunrise when it was much brighter (especially with a big moon just rising or setting). This location and day it was as dark as I'd ever want to shoot. I could clearly see the deer doing his thing and took a neck shot to drop him on the spot.

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus my last post I didn’t pose my question very well.
If your normal hunting time was an hour after sunset instead of 30min do think the 8x56 would be the way to go over the smaller objectives?
Thanks for doing these reviews and comparisons.

Yes sir. Or, something with top end glass and a 56mm objective.

@Formidilosus were all the lenses cleaned prior to the evaluation? I only ask because they look well used and given your general cleaning philosophy it may be a variable.

I have no idea if it would change your conclusion because it has no effect on reticle design but may have some swing in the "can maybe tell sex" gray area. But I honestly don't know how much it matters in your evaluation, if at all.

Yes sir, all were clean. The only scope with any wear on the lenses was the 3-9x SWFA. I’ve done these comparisons in low light for a long time. Usually with others and shooting targets. The results are always the same.

 

[fwafwow]

Thank you very much for this test/thread. I just got back from deer camp, so your test and the comments about SE whitetail hunting got my attention. But I'm trying to make do more with what I have instead of chasing new/more/better gear.

Between the SWFA’s, the Trijicon Tenmile, and the Maven RS1.2’s- if I had to bet my life on being able to make a shot in low light without illumination, it would be between the 6x and 3-9x SWFA’s. The cheapest two scopes….

I've got the SWFA 6x, 10x, 3-9x and 3-15x, as well as the Maven RS 1.2. Recently I have been thinking a lot about not shooting at the very end of legal shooting light (up to 30 min after legal sundown), due to my aging eyes, and especially if there is cloud cover.

I just used the Maven for my most recent hunt and one doe I took was a challenge with 10 min left in legal shooting light - especially because there were about 10 deer in the field. And that was using 6.5x32 binos to make sure the "big doe" wasn't a spike that I had lost track of.

The S&B 8x56mm was specifically designed and made for shooting animals at night without artificial light in Europe… and it shows. This scope consistently beats out nearly everything in the lowest light, and as a eastern low light scope it may be the best currently available that isn’t $3,000. If I were a dedicated SE whitetail hunter again, I would chose this and get their BDC turret added.

As much as I like the Maven, I've been thinking about switching back to one of the SWFAs - the 6x in particular. Now you have me thinking about the S&B 8x56. I know it's hard to quantify, but how much better is the S&B over the SWFA 6x?

The Minox ZP5 with THLR reticle again showed to be in a class completely by itself in ability to resolve enough information to make shots.

But no Swarovski including the Z5/6/8’s and X5’s, no S&B that I have seen, no Zeiss has topped it. Some scope for sure have comparable “glass”, but none I would choose over the ZP5 THLR if I had to make shots no matter what.

To confirm - I think you are saying that as good as the 8x56 is, the ZP5 is better? But even I know that I don't shoot enough to justify getting the ZP5 for my use case.

 

[Formidilosus]

I've got the SWFA 6x, 10x, 3-9x and 3-15x, as well as the Maven RS 1.2. Recently I have been thinking a lot about not shooting at the very end of legal shooting light (up to 30 min after legal sundown), due to my aging eyes, and especially if there is cloud cover.

Other than close range sun 100 yards or so, I am very hesitant to take shots in very low light.

I just used the Maven for my most recent hunt and one doe I took was a challenge with 10 min left in legal shooting light - especially because there were about 10 deer in the field. And that was using 6.5x32 binos to make sure the "big doe" wasn't a spike that I had lost track of.

What made it challenging? The image brightness or the reticle?

As much as I like the Maven, I've been thinking about switching back to one of the SWFAs - the 6x in particular. Now you have me thinking about the S&B 8x56. I know it's hard to quantify, but how much better is the S&B over the SWFA 6x?

At 50’ish yards, not “oh my god” better. More when it’s 100-200 yards it’s noticeable.

To confirm - I think you are saying that as good as the 8x56 is, the ZP5 is better? But even I know that I don't shoot enough to justify getting the ZP5 for my use case.

Yes. The ZP5 is the best low light scope I have seen. I have not put the “alpha” made for night shooting scopes next to it, but in comparison to the S&B 8x56mm which I have- my guess is it is right in there with them.

 

[fwafwow]

Other than close range sun 100 yards or so, I am very hesitant to take shots in very low light.

Same here. Even though that's often the time with the most activity, that cuts both ways (as more activity means I have to make more judgment calls, try to keep track of which deer not to shoot, etc.). For me, 30 min after sundown is DARK, so I can't imagine how I (me personally) could think of shooting at up to an hour after sundown.

What made it challenging? The image brightness or the reticle?

The reticle. And futzing around with whether to turn on illumination or not, and balancing the magnification needed to see the illumination. A bit earlier I was testing to see when the illumination showed up, and it took ~6x to see it. That changes as it gets darker, but with the clock ticking, I just didn't want to deal w/ the illumination and changing the power.

At 50’ish yards, not “oh my god” better. More when it’s 100-200 yards it’s noticeable.

Thank you. I'm not going to consider any low light shots beyond 100 yards.

 

[Formidilosus]

Same here. Even though that's often the time with the most activity, that cuts both ways (as more activity means I have to make more judgment calls, try to keep track of which deer not to shoot, etc.). For me, 30 min after sundown is DARK, so I can't imagine how I (me personally) could think of shooting at up to an hour after sundown.

The reticle. And futzing around with whether to turn on illumination or not, and balancing the magnification needed to see the illumination. A bit earlier I was testing to see when the illumination showed up, and it took ~6x to see it. That changes as it gets darker, but with the clock ticking, I just didn't want to deal w/ the illumination and changing the power.

Best to have it figured out before hand- take it out and see what power you need to be on, and what illumination level you need to be on to barely see it at 30min past sunset. Then, set it on that power at sunset, and have the illumination dial one click for the setting.

 

[Teodoro]

Twice this year I've had a hard time picking out very close does in brush at sunset +30.
The second time, after she busted me, I tried taking my glasses off (very minor prescription) and felt like I could see better. It's possible they were very mildly fogged and I didn't realize it, but is there any way the extra layer of glass could actually be hurting me at close range at very last light?