Low light binoculars?

[DRUSS]

Well, seasons are over and now it's time to look at upgrading my current gear. So this year I am planing on new binoculars. I currently have Zeiss victory 12x56mm and have been content with there performance. But figure it's time for new...... looking at Zeiss sf 10x, Leica noctovid 10x swarovski el or slc. Would like to hear everyone's thoughts or opinions on these or other comparable glass. I hunt the coast mostly and it's dark, cloudy,foggy,rainy a lot so low light performance is high on my list. I feel all these are good glass, hopefully some guys who have been able to use both or compare in field situations can help me out a little bit. Thanks guys

 

[Matt Cashell]

Those are all high performing binoculars, as they should be, given their pricetags.

The only one I haven't used in the field is the Noctovid.

Exit pupil will be the most important thing to consider in low light. For 10s, this means a 50mm or 56mm objective. A 10X50 will appear brighter than a similar 12X56 (5mm exit pupil vs. 4.6mm), while a 10X42 will appear a little dimmer (4.2mm exit pupil vs. 4.6mm).

The EL 10X50 would be a great choice.

 

[robby denning]

Swaro EL in 8x is tough to beat for light transmission


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[Browninglover1]

Magnification somehow plays a roll in everything too because the 15x56 binos I used to use were still usable after I had put my 10x42's away because it was too dark to see with them. The 15x were Vortex Kaibabs and the 10x were Meopto Meostar (non-HD).

 

[realunlucky]

Magnification somehow plays a roll in everything too because the 15x56 binos I used to use were still usable after I had put my 10x42's away because it was too dark to see with them. The 15x were Vortex Kaibabs and the 10x were Meopto Meostar (non-HD).

42mm vs 56mm objective lens was the difference there although lens coating can make a noticeable difference too.

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[Browninglover1]

Except everyone discusses exit pupil making the most difference and the 15x56 has a smaller exit pupil of 3.73mm compared to the 4.2mm exit pupil of the 10x binos.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Except everyone discusses exit pupil making the most difference and the 15x56 has a smaller exit pupil of 3.73mm compared to the 4.2mm exit pupil of the 10x binos.

Lots of things could explain it. The non-HD Meoptas have a real yellow light bias, and low light viewing tends to have more from the blue side of the spectrum. Your eyes could make this even more noticeable if your eyes are sensitive to blue light. It could also be a sample issue.

Regarding two binoculars of similar design (like two models from the same line i.e. EL 10X42 vs. EL 10X50), the larger exit pupil version will always appear brighter, as long as the condiitons require the viewer's pupils to dilate to a size equal to or greater than the exit pupil of both models.

A clear example of the advantage of exit pupil is to view something through a variable spotter at low light, and zoom from high to low magnification.

 

[Browninglover1]

Lots of things could explain it. The non-HD Meoptas have a real yellow light bias, and low light viewing tends to have more from the blue side of the spectrum. Your eyes could make this even more noticeable if your eyes are sensitive to blue light. It could also be a sample issue.

Regarding two binoculars of similar design (like two models from the same line i.e. EL 10X42 vs. EL 10X50), the larger exit pupil version will always appear brighter, as long as the condiitons require the viewer's pupils to dilate to a size equal to or greater than the exit pupil of both models.

A clear example of the advantage of exit pupil is to view something through a variable spotter at low light, and zoom from high to low magnification.

I agree fully that two binoculars of equal quality with one being a 10x50 and the other being a 10x42 you would expect the 10x50 to appear brighter due to the larger exit pupil.

Years ago I had someone talk to me about twilight factor and how higher magnification can actually be beneficial in low light even though you're probably dealing with smaller exit pupils. My understanding of twilight factor is that it's not near as critical as some people would lead me to believe, but that it does contribute to low light performance.

When different magnifications come into play is where my observations start to make me wonder how much a higher magnification can help given that it still has an exit pupil that is fairly large. My 8x32 EL's often get beat in the detail I am able to observe in first and last light compared to some 15x56 Minox that a hunting buddy has. So while my 8x32 have arguably better glass and a slightly larger exit pupil, his binoculars are able to observe better detail. I am assuming this is due to the higher magnification but we both agree that the Minox appear to function better in low light. Long story short, I'm probably using incorrect terminology and my real world observations aren't truly apples to apples comparisons but I feel they are worth noting.

Matt I'd love any additional detail you can provide on the subject. I have read your stuff for years and know you have a way better background and technical understanding of these things and can shed further light.

 

[elkguide]

Swaro 10X42 EL fanboy here.

Have used others except for the Noctovids and these are the choice for me.

 

[DRMULEYAZ28]

I have the Swarovski 10x50 EL and the low light performance is second to none. I’d recommend these if you can swing the coin for it.

 

[Matt Cashell]

When different magnifications come into play is where my observations start to make me wonder how much a higher magnification can help given that it still has an exit pupil that is fairly large. My 8x32 EL's often get beat in the detail I am able to observe in first and last light compared to some 15x56 Minox that a hunting buddy has. So while my 8x32 have arguably better glass and a slightly larger exit pupil, his binoculars are able to observe better detail. I am assuming this is due to the higher magnification but we both agree that the Minox appear to function better in low light.

You are totally on the right track. The Minox shows more detail due to the higher magnification, assuming there is sufficient light to resolve it. "Twilight factor" is just a calculation to quantify that.

Your 8X32 and 15X56 comparison is a good example. The exit pupils are pretty close, but the 15s have nearly twice the magnification, so even though the view is a little brighter due to exit pupil in the 8s, the 15s show more detail. This extra detail may even make you think the image is brighter, when it really isn't.

the rub is that high magnification requires pretty big objectives to get the sufficient light for low light viewing, and are pretty pretty big and heavy as a result. They are also hard to hand hold, and usually require a tripod for best performance.

 

[DRUSS]

Thanks guys. I do understand about exit pupil, and how to get this number. But also know that some lenses or coatings do work differently than others . Also each person's eyes are different.

 

[Vezome]

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[rmekus]

I can use my Swaro El 8.5x42 well after my SLC 15x56 begin to get dark.

 

[Matt Cashell]

I can use my Swaro El 8.5x42 well after my SLC 15x56 begin to get dark.

That makes sense because they are of similar quality and the 8.5s have a much larger exit pupil.

I think the EL 8.5x42 or SLC 8x42 would be a great low light match for his current 12s, but he indicated he was interested in 10s.

 

[DRUSS]

Good info guys, let's keep it coming. If I did go to 8x I would probably switch to a 32mm just for convenience of size. But also would serve another purpose.

 

[outdoor_matt]

My Leica 8x42 Ultravid HD's soak up light like a sponge. I can look through those long after my naked eyes can't decipher whats on the opposite hill. It's actually pretty amazing. Good binocs will let you search areas in low light you can no longer observe by just eyesight.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Good info guys, let's keep it coming. If I did go to 8x I would probably switch to a 32mm just for convenience of size. But also would serve another purpose.

I love the 8x32 configuration. I grab my 8x32 ELs frequently. However, you do give up that exit pupil advantage. Using a quality 8x42 at dusk is like flipping the light on.

 

[Dirty-D]

After trying alot of them for an extended period of time I went with the 8.5x42 Swarovski EL.

If i had all the money in the world I'd buy an 8x32 and a 10x50 or 12x50, but best size/ weight/ clarity/ brightness/ cost was the 8.5x42

 

[DRUSS]

After trying alot of them for an extended period of time I went with the 8.5x42 Swarovski EL.

If i had all the money in the world I'd buy an 8x32 and a 10x50 or 12x50, but best size/ weight/ clarity/ brightness/ cost was the 8.5x42

It would be nice to have these, but if I could have them I could also add some 15s too

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