Louder calling for bigger bulls?

[Chirogrow]

I'm curious what everyones thoughts are about calling bigger moose, say 50+ inches. Does sounding bigger when raking and grunting bring in bigger bulls assuming the time of the year is right and bulls are sizing each other up? We just got back from alaska and the our transported said to only lightly rake and soft grunt to bring in all the bulls. I've never heard this, I would have thought sounding bigger would make it so just bigger bulls come in and the smaller ones wouldn't want to come in.

 

[VernAK]

I don't think so!

 

[Chirogrow]

I don't think so!

Thanks for chiming in vern, I know you're a veteran in the moose world! do you tend to just always be louder when calling? I try to be loud and heavy when raking just to get the sound out there

 

[Sitkaspruce]

I always start softly as I don't want to scare any bulls close to me. They have amazing hearing and to start bellowing/grunting really loudly will put them on high alert or even push them away. When I was guiding , I can remember getting to a ridge and letting go with a long, loud cow call a good bull exploded out from the thick bush below us and headed for parts unknown. Lesson learned!

If you have ever heard cows and bulls communicate when they are close, it is always softer and less aggressive, unless the cow is being harassed by a smaller bull, then she will let everyone know she is not happy.

I start softly and after a few calling sequences, if I don't hear or see anything, I will increase the tone and go louder. I will also switch from using my hands to using a birch bark tube for more distance.

Could never correlate the calling tone/loudness to bigger bulls. Some of my bigger bulls were brought in just breaking branches and letting out a few grunts and moans, no real calling at all.

Would be interested to hear what others say.

Cheers

SS

 

[VernAK]

If a bull is close, I just grunt a bit. Usually WE spot our bulls from a mile or more and I only use the cow call as it is much louder than the bull grunt. Once the bull responds and gets closer, I switch to bull grunts and shaking the bushes and raking. usually try to distance myself a bit from the shooter and draw the bull past him.

 

[william schmaltz]

The few spots I’ve hunted where I know nothing is within several hundred yards, I’d swing at branches with a paddle like a baseball bat to get sound out. It worked alright. In the swamp, low and slow. Low frequency sound such as a canoe paddle scraping travels further than whacking branches. At least that’s what a physics nerd once told me. People underestimate how far them old buggers move. Never know what has snuck in within a couple hundred yards overnight or during lunch.

I’m sure a lot of people also sat through 30 mph gusts and sideways rain last couple weeks. This is the second bull of two that came on a rope to within 20 yards of our soft calls in such conditions. Crazy to think two bulls herd calls in that garbage. (New rule in camp is iPhones only so I don’t have garbage videos/photos like these!)
I also think a big bull will come into anything resembling an intruder in his territory. But that’s just a theory. I learn a ton every year that reminds me how little I know. Ask again in 30 years maybe!

 

[cumminsbassguy]

Called in my first handful of bulls this past trip. 6 of them to be precise, along with 7 cows that came bolting towards us. With the wind and rain I was really laying into the birch horn to get the sound traveling up, down and across the valley. Even without the wind they were fairly loud calls and the bulls didn't mind..

Once we heard them grunt. Usually under 500 yards because we couldnt see them otherwise., I went to the hands and softer calls.. a schmeduim rake on willows/ alders with a scapula will travel well over a mile to get their attention. (Verified that last year). All of the bulls called in were 35- 46".

If they were on a hot cow, they don't give a rats ass about your calls. Unless your trying to challenge them. Even then, we closed to 200 yards to measure the last bull, and I caused a ruckus to try and get him to turn for a good measurment. He didn't have a care in the world about us..

 

[Chirogrow]

I always start softly as I don't want to scare any bulls close to me. They have amazing hearing and to start bellowing/grunting really loudly will put them on high alert or even push them away. When I was guiding , I can remember getting to a ridge and letting go with a long, loud cow call a good bull exploded out from the thick bush below us and headed for parts unknown. Lesson learned!

If you have ever heard cows and bulls communicate when they are close, it is always softer and less aggressive, unless the cow is being harassed by a smaller bull, then she will let everyone know she is not happy.

I start softly and after a few calling sequences, if I don't hear or see anything, I will increase the tone and go louder. I will also switch from using my hands to using a birch bark tube for more distance.

Could never correlate the calling tone/loudness to bigger bulls. Some of my bigger bulls were brought in just breaking branches and letting out a few grunts and moans, no real calling at all.

Would be interested to hear what others say.

Cheers

SS

Great info! thank you!

 

[ColeyG]

My 2 cents.

Big bulls are older bulls, Older bulls are smart bulls. Smart bulls are much more concerned with energy conservation having been through the rut a handful of times as compared to younger bulls who run into about any situation they can that involves other moose. Bulls, cows, whatever. They just want to get into the mix. The older bulls just want to have their cows and avoid drama if at all possible.

The big bulls don't want to fight if they don't have to because fighting takes time and energy and if they are cowed up, they run the risk of losing their cows.

Cow calling is much more effective on older bulls. Too many times to count I've watched bigger bulls move their cows away from other bulls and bull sounds, usually without making a noise or responding to call in any way. Once they are cowed up, I feel like this is their default behavior if the perceived challenger is far enough away that they are not an immediate threat. This all changes within 50-75 yards. At that point I think the big bulls perceive the threat as immediate and they have no choice but to confront the intruder. They will come in for the fight.

On the bull I took last week I watched this scenario play out pretty much to a T. On encounter #1 with my bull, I had been largely cow calling with some light raking that he most likely did hear. After one of my cow calls, I heard him start grunting about a quarter mile away. We closed the distance until I was pretty sure I would be able to see him and did some raking. He went totally silent. After about 15 minutes of no response, I spotted him pushing his cows away from us fast about 600 yards away downstream.

The next day we floated down to where we had last seen him and sat silent for an hour to see if he would pop out or give his position away. After no sign of him or the cows, I let out one soft, short cow call and he started ripping off grunts and came in hot, running and thrashing brush the whole way.

My interpretation of his behavior in these two encounters was that he was happy with his cows and had no interest in confronting another bull if he could avoid it. He was, however, very interested in rounding up other lone cows in his neighborhood if given the opportunity.

My partner's bull was a different scenario. He was by himself and I came at him with a combination of bull sounds and bothered cow calls. He came in fired up hoping to get in on the rut party he was missing out on and was looking for a fight with the bull that was pestering cows.


67"



63"




Your calling strategy, in my mind at least, should vary based on the scenario and/or based on where the rut is at. As the rut progresses, the animals behavior and mindset changes pretty significantly and things that work earlier in the rut may not work or be counter productive later in the season.

When blind calling and/or searching for bulls, I do about 75% cow calling and 25% mild to moderate bull sounds and that has served me fairly well so far.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is over calling. As many others have stated, these critters senses are super sharp. From the first sound you make they have radar lock on your position. Over call, especially when they get close, and they will not only hear stuff they don't like, they won't see the things they are looking for (other moose) where you are calling from. This is why they "hang up" at relatively close distances and won't commit to engaging until they are certain of what they are dealing with.

My partner's bull came in hot to about 100 yards and hung up, staring us down for 10-15 minutes. I gave him some looks at my paddles through the thick brush. He wound up swimming the river to get downwind of us and survey the scene rather than keep coming in a straight line to where we were at. Crafty little fella.

Nothing works all of the time, and everything works some of the time...

 

[Chirogrow]

My 2 cents.

Big bulls are older bulls, Older bulls are smart bulls. Smart bulls are much more concerned with energy conservation having been through the rut a handful of times as compared to younger bulls who run into about any situation they can that involves other moose. Bulls, cows, whatever. They just want to get into the mix. The older bulls just want to have their cows and avoid drama if at all possible.

The big bulls don't want to fight if they don't have to because fighting takes time and energy and if they are cowed up, they run the risk of losing their cows.

Cow calling is much more effective on older bulls. Too many times to count I've watched bigger bulls move their cows away from other bulls and bull sounds, usually without making a noise or responding to call in any way. Once they are cowed up, I feel like this is their default behavior if the perceived challenger is far enough away that they are not an immediate threat. This all changes within 50-75 yards. At that point I think the big bulls perceive the threat as immediate and they have no choice but to confront the intruder. They will come in for the fight.

On the bull I took last week I watched this scenario play out pretty much to a T. On encounter #1 with my bull, I had been largely cow calling with some light raking that he most likely did hear. After one of my cow calls, I heard him start grunting about a quarter mile away. We closed the distance until I was pretty sure I would be able to see him and did some raking. He went totally silent. After about 15 minutes of no response, I spotted him pushing his cows away from us fast about 600 yards away downstream.

The next day we floated down to where we had last seen him and sat silent for an hour to see if he would pop out or give his position away. After no sign of him or the cows, I let out one soft, short cow call and he started ripping off grunts and came in hot, running and thrashing brush the whole way.

My interpretation of his behavior in these two encounters was that he was happy with his cows and had no interest in confronting another bull if he could avoid it. He was, however, very interested in rounding up other lone cows in his neighborhood if given the opportunity.

My partner's bull was a different scenario. He was by himself and I came at him with a combination of bull sounds and bothered cow calls. He came in fired up hoping to get in on the rut party he was missing out on and was looking for a fight with the bull that was pestering cows.

View attachment 768321
67"


View attachment 768322
63"

View attachment 768323


Your calling strategy, in my mind at least, should vary based on the scenario and/or based on where the rut is at. As the rut progresses, the animals behavior and mindset changes pretty significantly and things that work earlier in the rut may not work or be counter productive later in the season.

When blind calling and/or searching for bulls, I do about 75% cow calling and 25% mild to moderate bull sounds and that has served me fairly well so far.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is over calling. As many others have stated, these critters senses are super sharp. From the first sound you make they have radar lock on your position. Over call, especially when they get close, and they will not only hear stuff they don't like, they won't see the things they are looking for (other moose) where you are calling from. This is why they "hang up" at relatively close distances and won't commit to engaging until they are certain of what they are dealing with.

My partner's bull came in hot to about 100 yards and hung up, staring us down for 10-15 minutes. I gave him some looks at my paddles through the thick brush. He wound up swimming the river to get downwind of us and survey the scene rather than keep coming in a straight line to where we were at. Crafty little fella.

Nothing works all of the time, and everything works some of the time...

I love the insight and it makes perfect sense! Congrats on a great hunt!

 

[Catchfish]

I’m like everyone else it depends on the calling situations. Often the ones who are wanting to fight may be satellite bulls who have no cows. A big bull with cows will stay with the cows. The only time I’ve had them revved up to fight is to separate them from the cows. They will be interested in a free cow though.

I have seen loud calling scare bulls away especially if they are small or have been getting their butt kicked.

 

[MtnsWinAgain]

My 2 cents.

Big bulls are older bulls, Older bulls are smart bulls. Smart bulls are much more concerned with energy conservation having been through the rut a handful of times as compared to younger bulls who run into about any situation they can that involves other moose. Bulls, cows, whatever. They just want to get into the mix. The older bulls just want to have their cows and avoid drama if at all possible.

The big bulls don't want to fight if they don't have to because fighting takes time and energy and if they are cowed up, they run the risk of losing their cows.

Cow calling is much more effective on older bulls. Too many times to count I've watched bigger bulls move their cows away from other bulls and bull sounds, usually without making a noise or responding to call in any way. Once they are cowed up, I feel like this is their default behavior if the perceived challenger is far enough away that they are not an immediate threat. This all changes within 50-75 yards. At that point I think the big bulls perceive the threat as immediate and they have no choice but to confront the intruder. They will come in for the fight.

On the bull I took last week I watched this scenario play out pretty much to a T. On encounter #1 with my bull, I had been largely cow calling with some light raking that he most likely did hear. After one of my cow calls, I heard him start grunting about a quarter mile away. We closed the distance until I was pretty sure I would be able to see him and did some raking. He went totally silent. After about 15 minutes of no response, I spotted him pushing his cows away from us fast about 600 yards away downstream.

The next day we floated down to where we had last seen him and sat silent for an hour to see if he would pop out or give his position away. After no sign of him or the cows, I let out one soft, short cow call and he started ripping off grunts and came in hot, running and thrashing brush the whole way.

My interpretation of his behavior in these two encounters was that he was happy with his cows and had no interest in confronting another bull if he could avoid it. He was, however, very interested in rounding up other lone cows in his neighborhood if given the opportunity.

My partner's bull was a different scenario. He was by himself and I came at him with a combination of bull sounds and bothered cow calls. He came in fired up hoping to get in on the rut party he was missing out on and was looking for a fight with the bull that was pestering cows.

View attachment 768321
67"


View attachment 768322
63"

View attachment 768323


Your calling strategy, in my mind at least, should vary based on the scenario and/or based on where the rut is at. As the rut progresses, the animals behavior and mindset changes pretty significantly and things that work earlier in the rut may not work or be counter productive later in the season.

When blind calling and/or searching for bulls, I do about 75% cow calling and 25% mild to moderate bull sounds and that has served me fairly well so far.

I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is over calling. As many others have stated, these critters senses are super sharp. From the first sound you make they have radar lock on your position. Over call, especially when they get close, and they will not only hear stuff they don't like, they won't see the things they are looking for (other moose) where you are calling from. This is why they "hang up" at relatively close distances and won't commit to engaging until they are certain of what they are dealing with.

My partner's bull came in hot to about 100 yards and hung up, staring us down for 10-15 minutes. I gave him some looks at my paddles through the thick brush. He wound up swimming the river to get downwind of us and survey the scene rather than keep coming in a straight line to where we were at. Crafty little fella.

Nothing works all of the time, and everything works some of the time...

Thanks for the notes, super helpful. Sounds pretty similar to some bull elk behavior.

 

[Snowwolfe]

Moose do not read the same books we do. We have called in bulls in the mid 50 range where they literally ran across a open field to come to us. And we seen other bulls same size or bigger head the other way when they hear the call.
Only thing I have learned in almost 50 years of hunting bull winkle is not to over do the calling part. You have to match it to his interest level. And that is the tough part to figure out.

 

[Snowwolfe]

You hunted moose 50 years? Thats impressive. 50 moose hunts, wow!

No, I haven't been on 50 moose hunts. But I have been hunting them since 1977 with occasional breaks.

 

[Jimss]

There are so many variables....weather (hot vs cold), wind that is impossible to hear past 400 yards, timing of rut, bulls w/cows, lone bulls searching for cows, hunting pressure, distance between moose, open country vs black timber, etc. Stick with what is working and change things up if something else may work.

 

[Snowwolfe]

People count years of experience even when they don’t do such the activity? I bet you have an impressive resume

I am comfortable enough with my hunting abilities and level of experiences.

 

[medvedyt]

as already said rut needs to be adapted to the time of the rut and conditions.

i found out as well rattling/raking against trees might attract some bulls that were not interest by grunt or calls ... certainly by curiosity on my opinion of course.

 

[medvedyt]

I’m like everyone else it depends on the calling situations. Often the ones who are wanting to fight may be satellite bulls who have no cows. A big bull with cows will stay with the cows. The only time I’ve had them revved up to fight is to separate them from the cows. They will be interested in a free cow though.

I have seen loud calling scare bulls away especially if they are small or have been getting their butt kicked.

big time if you are scaring a bull away just reduce the tone and it might work. i still seeing the bull that destroy some trees not far from us but never crossed the fire line. he was a clever not too big but he was unhappy about my presence and rattling and calling but i was too big for him ... i learnt my lesson very well now im way more quieter or less louder but still heard lol ...