Long range muzzleloader for AZ and NM

[CodyB]

I am beginning to think about having a dedicated scoped long-range muzzleloader built for states like AZ and NM that have very liberal muzzleloader regulations. I have seen some of the muzzleloader builds from Owens Armory and Precise Rifle Solutions but overall the information on these type of muzzleloaders seems limited. Does anyone have experience with some of these custom built muzzleloaders that are based on the 700 SA? It seems most of these builds are designed around using full bore .45 cal bullets. I noticed too that Hell’s Canyon Armory is making a carbon .45 cal barrel which could be cool to add to the build.

 

[Muleyslayer14]

Utah is another state that allows LR muzzy’s. I have been looking into building one also. As with anything depending on what you want out of it I think the best value is a knight 500. (Not custom)
My research suggests it will be very accurate to 500 yards, maybe further once load is perfected.

I’m interested to see what other people have to say.

 

[Gdavis3rd]

I got the gunwerks muzzie this fall. Really accurate out to 500 plus. 50 cal. Real nice but not cheap. Broke it in on a nice ohio buck at 202 yards. Eazy shot.

George Davis
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bradb]

Hollis weber(center punch usa) had mike at hells canyon do the carbon barrels for him, turned down and wrapped Brux. Mike isv selling the barrrels outright also. The muzz builds are very good and stupid accurate. The builds can be done on a lot of actions, but yes common on 700 sa type. But lots of options. I am very very comfortable at 500.
Cheaper options are adding/modifying a tc 45-70 barrel with a breech plug ect. Lots of info on dougs message board. Feel free to pm me if you want more info

 

[ENCORE]

Muzzleloader Muzzlebrake Premium sights

building Custom Muzzlebrakes for your centerfire, rimfire, and the ever elusive Muzzleloader Brake

lrcustomsinc.com

https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/

 

[lilharcher]

I just had Shultz Precision build me a LR muzzleloader for NM, UT, and AZ hunts w/ R700 S/A, using the Arrowhead breech plug system, and Brux .45 caliber barrel........shoots .3 moa out to 300 yards thus far and will be taking it out to 600 yards soon. My brother shot a single three shot group @ 100 yards with my rifle, and immediately sold his Rem UML and ordered one free m Shultz Precision. JR Shultz is a gunsmith/owner out of Tenn, and builds a ton of LR ML’s......look him up on Facebook.

 

[.270]

Luke at arrowhead rifles rebarreled my remington UML and used his ignition system and I am shooting sub moa groups with that rifle. It uses the full bore .45 caliber bullets with great accuracy. I used it to take an elk in AZ this year, only 210 yards not long range but it preformed flawlessly.

 

[LWH723]

Yes, full bore 45cal is way to go. 50's are basically obsolete except where you need to use them as required by law (CO elk).

Carbon wrapped is kind of overrated. You can save a little weight, but not a lot . Can't get real aggressive with weight reduction because of the 45cal hole. A good spiral flute gives basically same weight as a HC at a fraction of the cost.

As far as more info goes, I'll have a booth at the Western Hunt Expo in SLC if you make it to that. Also, just did a podcast with Vortex that's due to drop sometime in the new few weeks.

Luke

 

[OXN939]

My research suggests it will be very accurate to 500 yards, maybe further once load is perfected.

I’m interested to see what other people have to say.

True, but bear in mind that even with the hottest charge in the nicest rifle using custom ammo, a blackpowder rifle at 500 yards will be in the same ballpark of terminal ballistic performance as a compact .45 ACP handgun.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Tany shot here deer at 440 yards with the Precise Rifle solutions ML. Derick can flat build rifles/ML. He can build them with a steel or carbon barrel and different weights as well.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Steve O]

Luke at arrowhead rifles rebarreled my remington UML and used his ignition system and I am shooting sub moa groups with that rifle. It uses the full bore .45 caliber bullets with great accuracy. I used it to take an elk in AZ this year, only 210 yards not long range but it preformed flawlessly.

To use a full bore .45 bullet (no sabot) do you need some kind of gas check on the base of the bullet?

 

[bradb]

The bullets are seized to fit barrel with a swing loc die, smooth or full form(rifling grooves/land) Some will still use a fiber card under bullet, but not needed most of time

 

[ENCORE]

True, but bear in mind that even with the hottest charge in the nicest rifle using custom ammo, a blackpowder rifle at 500 yards will be in the same ballpark of terminal ballistic performance as a compact .45 ACP handgun.

Respectfully disagree.

The custom 45cal rifles being made today are capable of having over 1000# of bullet energy out to 700yds shooting BH209 (BP substitute).
Those custom rifles built for smokeless can maintain over 1000# of bullet energy beyond 900yds.

 

[bradb]

True, but bear in mind that even with the hottest charge in the nicest rifle using custom ammo, a blackpowder rifle at 500 yards will be in the same ballpark of terminal ballistic performance as a compact .45 ACP handgun.

My muzz, with smokeless powder, where legal, has 1923 ft lbs of energy at 500. That's a hot load in 45acp!

Like 1099ft lbs with blackhorn

Really have to change the way you think of these muzzle-loaders in the traditional ideas.
They are single shot, case less, high power rifles, loaded from muzzle

 

[OXN939]

My muzz, with smokeless powder, where legal, has 1923 ft lbs of energy at 500.

Like 1099ft lbs with blackhorn

Respectfully disagree.

Those custom rifles built for smokeless can maintain over 1000# of bullet energy beyond 900yds.

Considering that smokeless powder is illegal in both of the states mentioned in this post, these observations are no more pertinent than me talking about the performance of my .300 Win mag. Really, what I'm reading here is that even the most extreme examples of ML performance, which you are both citing, barely meet the generally-agreed-upon 1000 ft lbs *minimum* to kill deer at 500 yards, and are well below what is necessary for elk. To start another dumpster fire, my .223 has more kinetic energy at close hunting distances than the 500 yard example bradb gives above.

Just your periodic reminder that it may not be a good idea to advertise the maximum capabilities of world class shooters to a guy who is exploring the idea of purchasing his a LR muzzleloader, and that blackpowder ballistics are less impressive at truly long range than they are on the internet.

 

[ENCORE]

Considering that smokeless powder is illegal in both of the states mentioned in this post, these observations are no more pertinent than me talking about the performance of my .300 Win mag. Really, what I'm reading here is that even the most extreme examples of ML performance, which you are both citing, barely meet the generally-agreed-upon 1000 ft lbs *minimum* to kill deer at 500 yards, and are well below what is necessary for elk. To start another dumpster fire, my .223 has more kinetic energy at close hunting distances than the 500 yard example bradb gives above.

Just your periodic reminder that it may not be a good idea to advertise the maximum capabilities of world class shooters to a guy who is exploring the idea of purchasing his a LR muzzleloader, and that blackpowder ballistics are less impressive at truly long range than they are on the internet.

Again, respectfully disagree with your assumption of the energy to harvest at 500yds.
Because I'm disagreeing, I'll provide information why.

1st...…… Just because smokeless propellant isn't legal, does not mean that a top BP substitute, such as BH209 can't be used in the same custom rifle. Actually, 'the best custom rifles make the best BH209 rifles'.

Here's the ballistics of a CUSTOM 45cal rifle using BH209 and NOT SMOKELESS PROPELLANT.
Its not "real blackpowder" but it is blackpowder substitute, a very good one also.
I did not change or eliminate the wind values which is why they show on the chart. But for the record the wind is based on a 10mph wind at 90° to the bore.
1,800fpe at 500yds will work on the game you mention.

Also for the record.......... just because the rifle is very capable with FPE at 500yds, most shooters should avoid attempting these long range hunting shots. It takes a TON of practice, a great range finder, and a hunter who understands the wind and has fired enough rounds to be 100% confident with their shot placement.

 

[OXN939]

Also for the record.......... just because the rifle is very capable with FPE at 500yds, most shooters should avoid attempting these long range hunting shots. It takes a TON of practice, a great range finder, and a hunter who understands the wind and has fired enough rounds to be 100% confident with their shot placement.

That's a very impressive load shown in that chart! At 500, it has almost the energy of a reduced recoil .243 varmint load.

Seriously, all I'm saying is that there is a terminal ballistic component to your last observation. Yes, muzzleloaders have come a long way recently. They still require a huge investment of resources to use ethically at anywhere near what is referred to as "long range" these days, and the reality of their terminal performance at those distances is worth a serious look. I wouldn't shoot an elk with something that takes that much effort to push into the category of "marginal."

 

[Str8shtr]

I don't see much point in having a dedicated muzzleloader season when muzzleloaders like these are allowed. They're just a rifle that takes a little longer to reload and more accurate than most production rifles.

 

[Str8shtr]

That's a very impressive load shown in that chart! At 500, it has almost the energy of a reduced recoil .243 varmint load.

Seriously, all I'm saying is that there is a terminal ballistic component to your last observation. Yes, muzzleloaders have come a long way recently. They still require a huge investment of resources to use ethically at anywhere near what is referred to as "long range" these days, and the reality of their terminal performance at those distances is worth a serious look. I wouldn't shoot an elk with something that takes that much effort to push into the category of "marginal."

Also i think a 325gr 45cal bullet is not really comparable to a 223 or 243 bullet at similar fpe. The accuracy of these guns is also amazing. 1/2 moa is not out of the norm. It's really just a rifle. The only thing in common that it has with a standard muzzleloader is that it's loaded from the muzzle.