Long Range Lead Slinging Story on Meateater Podcast

[Mighty Mouse]

Did anyone else cringe while listening to the kid tell his big bull story at the beginning of this week's Meateater podcast episode? I'm a hillbilly from back east who can't see 700 yards in most of the places I hunt (much less try to take a shot at that distance), so maybe I'm simply naive/ignorant about western rifle hunting norms, but taking multiple shots beyond the range you've practiced at sure seems like a bad idea. See below for an abbreviated transcript. I'm curious to hear other perspectives on this.

(Connor): [The bull] is at 689 yards and I [thought] I got a whole ‘nother week of the hunt, might as well try to pull the trigger . . . if I miss then I got another week.​

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(Cal): Are you a hold over guy or are you dialing?​

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(Connor): Hold over . . . It's a Christmas tree scope. It's got 5 notches on it. The farthest it goes is 600 but there's this little notch at the very end that I use for 700.​

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(Steve): So you do a little bit of long distance shooting?​

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(Connor): No, that was the first time I've ever shot that far . . . So I miss the first shot and the bull just stood there like nothing happened . . . My dad [said] “Shoot again, shoot again . . . You missed high.” I [thought] I gotta readjust for wind and all that. Shot again, high-backed him and his back legs dropped. And he just stood there again. My dad [said] “Load another one and shoot”, and I did, and it double lunged him.​

 

[Wheels]

Too many tv shows and YouTubers glorifying long range shooting at critters. They don’t show the ones they miss or worse yet make a bad shot on and lose the animal.
I guess making a good stalk is out of the question.

 

[longspeak74]

So much of that last response from Connor makes me cringe...but who am I to judge.

 

[dtrkyman]

That scene plays out far more often than people would care to believe I'm sure.

I bow hunt only for big game so my hunt hasn't even started at 700!

 

[Wingshooter]

That was cringy lots can go wrong in that distance even if you're well practiced. His bull beats my best by 100"s or so.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Too many tv shows and YouTubers glorifying long range shooting at critters. They don’t show the ones they miss or worse yet make a bad shot on and lose the animal.
I guess making a good stalk is out of the question.

Why is it always the long-range guys? I know of a YTer who put an arrow into two different bulls last year at under 30 yards. He didn't find either bull.

It's important to understand that a bad shot is a bad shot, irrespective of the weapon used.

 

[LongWayAround]

I can't imagine what kind of ethics lead one to believe their first shots a long range target should be at an animal with a half ass holdover.

Edit: I didn't realize that the shooter was 16. I would still apply the above to his dad for encouraging that.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Why is it always the long-range guys? I know of a YTer who put an arrow into two different bulls last year at under 30 yards. He didn't find either bull.

I think some people are uncomfortable discussing the fact that archery has some of the same ethical challenges that long range shooting does. Archery is certainly more fair-chase oriented but the actual shots themselves have a lot of challenges in common with LR.

 

[RMM]

I listened to the podcast yesterday and thought about starting a thread. I wonder how he knew "the little notch at the bottom" put him at 700 if he had never shot that far. Sounds like he got damn lucky to me.

 

[TVW]

Why is it always the long-range guys? I know of a YTer who put an arrow into two different bulls last year at under 30 yards. He didn't find either bull.

It's important to understand that a bad shot is a bad shot, irrespective of the weapon used.

I'll bite....one reason it's different is because in most scenarios guys who are shooting long range can't even get to where they are shooting to in a reasonable amount of time to check for a hit/miss/wounded animal etc.

We got tons of dudes shooting across huge canyons that will take them hours to cross to confirm they hit or missed, how is that even remotely ethical?

That doesn't even factor in how in the heck you find the exact spot the animal was standing once you get there. Sometimes that's hard to do when they are only 100yds away, let alone 700 or 800 or 1,000.

Not gonna be a popular opinion here but I really wish that Game Departments would start putting more regulations in place to stop the long range craze....no dial able turrets, ban bipods, ban range finders....do something at least.

Yes, I know it takes a ton of skill and practice to be able to effectively shoot long range but if you are shooting something from so far away that it doesn't have ANY chance to even know that you existed....are you really hunting or are you just shooting?

 

[jonpall]

I listened to that episode. I feel like the hosts were even a little taken aback, but there's only so much they'll say to their 16 year old guest.

 

[SWOHTR]

I also think some of it is dudes playing out their sniper fantasies.

 

[t_carlson]

Why is it always the long-range guys? I know of a YTer who put an arrow into two different bulls last year at under 30 yards. He didn't find either bull.

It's important to understand that a bad shot is a bad shot, irrespective of the weapon used.

I think its simple statistics. The further the distance, the more likely it is for someone to miss. That applies to practiced shooters as well, which I think we can all agree on.

LR shooting, of course, is not the sole cause of bad shots. Close or far, the real culprit is a lack of discipline, self-control, and knowing one's personal limitations. But, there is no doubt bad shots are only worsened by range. All of the LR hype and gear that has hit the market as of late only exacerbates the problem, as it encourages people who won't put in the real work to try and make those shots. I think an awful lot of them aren't even aware of how incompetent they are. They buy a magnum and a CDS dial and just assume that it is just a "point and shoot" game.

I don't have a problem with LR shooting, and even engage in it myself depending on what you consider to be "long range." However, I don't buy into the logic that just because animals are wounded at shorter ranges, hunters should feel free to try longer shots too.

 

[Dave_S]

I'll bite....one reason it's different is because in most scenarios guys who are shooting long range can't even get to where they are shooting to in a reasonable amount of time to check for a hit/miss/wounded animal etc.

We got tons of dudes shooting across huge canyons that will take them hours to cross to confirm they hit or missed, how is that even remotely ethical?

That doesn't even factor in how in the heck you find the exact spot the animal was standing once you get there. Sometimes that's hard to do when they are only 100yds away, let alone 700 or 800 or 1,000.

Not gonna be a popular opinion here but I really wish that Game Departments would start putting more regulations in place to stop the long range craze....no dial able turrets, ban bipods, ban range finders....do something at least.

Yes, I know it takes a ton of skill and practice to be able to effectively shoot long range but if you are shooting something from so far away that it doesn't have ANY chance to even know that you existed....are you really hunting or are you just shooting?

So you’d rather take away the tools that improve the ability to take effective shots? And what do you mean by “no dial able turrets”? Presumably, you mean turrets without caps. Not really any different from just taking the cap off. What use is any scope without the ability to dial? That’s also how you zero. And rangefinders? Are we banning those for archery hunters as well?
You’re spot on that too many people are shooting above their skill. But to propose taking away the tools that many hunters use to increase their effectiveness is just silly. And I don’t really understand the “are you even hunting” question. That’s not true, I do understand it. It’s a thinly veiled way to place a value judgement on how someone else hunts. Logically, where do you draw that line? When is it enough?


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[Ryan Avery]

I'll bite....one reason it's different is because in most scenarios guys who are shooting long range can't even get to where they are shooting to in a reasonable amount of time to check for a hit/miss/wounded animal etc.

We got tons of dudes shooting across huge canyons that will take them hours to cross to confirm they hit or missed, how is that even remotely ethical?

That doesn't even factor in how in the heck you find the exact spot the animal was standing once you get there. Sometimes that's hard to do when they are only 100yds away, let alone 700 or 800 or 1,000.

Not gonna be a popular opinion here but I really wish that Game Departments would start putting more regulations in place to stop the long range craze....no dial able turrets, ban bipods, ban range finders....do something at least.

Yes, I know it takes a ton of skill and practice to be able to effectively shoot long range but if you are shooting something from so far away that it doesn't have ANY chance to even know that you existed....are you really hunting or are you just shooting?

You lost me at "reasonable amount of time". I have waited a couple of hours after an archery shot before tracking.

Tons of dudes stick elk every year is that ethical?

Hunters never took long shots before RF, turrets, or bipods? I remember it a little differently, I guess.

We definitely need more laws, especially ones that are impossible to enforce.

If you can't find the location the animal was standing at when you shot you might need to work on your woodmanship. But the laughable part is I have been bowhunting with buddies that can't remember where the animal was or where they shot from... we need another law for this...

I hunt right up till I pull the trigger

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I listened to that episode. I feel like the hosts were even a little taken aback, but there's only so much they'll say to their 16 year old guest.

Good point. I don't judge the kid himself too harshly given his age, the size of the bull, and the fact that his dad was present. If 16 year old me had a monster animal in sight with my dad telling me to shoot, I'm sure I would've started shooting.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I think its simple statistics. The further the distance, the more likely it is for someone to miss. That applies to practiced shooters as well, which I think we can all agree on.

LR shooting, of course, is not the sole cause of bad shots. Close or far, the real culprit is a lack of discipline, self-control, and knowing one's personal limitations. But, there is no doubt bad shots are only worsened by range. All of the LR hype and gear that has hit the market as of late only exacerbates the problem, as it encourages people who won't put in the real work to try and make those shots. I think an awful lot of them aren't even aware of how incompetent they are. They buy a magnum and a CDS dial and just assume that it is just a "point and shoot" game.

I don't have a problem with LR shooting, and even engage in it myself depending on what you consider to be "long range." However, I don't buy into the logic that just because animals are wounded at shorter ranges, hunters should feel free to try longer shots too.

Statistically, more bad shots are taken at closer distances.

You nailed it though. Understanding your limitations is very hard for men/hunters to come to terms with.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

We don't need more laws. We need people to know their weapon system and know their ability. Whether it's a rifle or a bow.

 

[Novahunter]

That whole conversation was definitely cringey. Kid got lucky, and I am sure now it's just going to make him more careless.

 

[hoot504]

Rinella’s saying with regards to this issue is that if you take a shot and register surprise when you land a hit, then you should not have taken the shot. He’s said it many times and I’m sure the thought crossed his mind during this interview. Maybe he just didn’t want to call out a 16 year old guest?