Listen to guides when loading for big game

[BCDJR]

Goats died without moving from the spot they were in when the 108 ELDM hit their lungs.

I don't hunt with guides. Tell things that don't make sense and I'm going to criticize. I judged the story told only. But hey, I can take a queue and play your game. 'It is absurd for some who requires a babysitter to hunt to criticize those of use who know enough to do so without one. Of course, many people have to use babysitters for certain species, the consequences of choosing to live in soft country.'

Yeah, not helpful to the conversation. Not a position I hold either, just a demonstration of how you come across in this thread.


I've been part of taking out a good sized goat. If I remember correctly it was 105 pounds of boned out meat that came off the mountain from that one.

 

[BCDJR]

I guess you didn’t read the OP was in BC and NWT where a NR must have a guide . Course you only hunt your backyard. Otherwise you would know. And of course your worldly experience comes from your backyard. You will not be hunting in lots of places without a guide. That is how you come across with your silly comments

 

[35WhelenAI]

Guides definitely opened up a land of opportunity for those that would have no idea or knowledge to do it on their own.

Certain forums contribute to that in the way "All Trails" RUINED small towns with over crowding advertising to folks magnificent hikes within 10 miles of their home during a certain period of 2020 and 2021.

In any case, make your aim true and your bullet choice appropriate to keep with the theme of the thread.

 

[Marbles]

 

[Billy Goat]

And of course your worldly experience comes from your backyard.

He has always read to me as someone who made choices to live where he lives, and do what he does, so he can do what he wants.

I might be confusing posters, but I'm pretty sure he didn't originate in AK, made choices, and was able to end up there.


And now I'm more curious of the goat he was a part of that was over 100# boned out meat, not because I doubt him, but because that's a stud.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

He has always read to me as someone who made choices to live where he lives, and do what he does, so he can do what he wants.

I might be confusing posters, but I'm pretty sure he didn't originate in AK, made choices, and was able to end up there.


And now I'm more curious of the goat he was a part of that was over 100# boned out meat, not because I doubt him, but because that's a stud.

It was only 70 lbs of meat and 30 lbs of shale he didn’t notice. He clearly lied.

 

[flyfisher117]

I’ve got friends and family that guide. They are each unique and have different skill sets. I would not blindly follow any single one. They’re just like the rest of us and their experiences has gotten them to where they are but that doesn’t mean they aren’t jaded.

One is a staunch 300 win and eldm fan. He despises most short action cartridges. He also doesn’t think an eldm can be shot out of them. He has a cool montage he’s put together over the years, filming shots on game. It makes the 300 win and other mags look a lot more impressive than short action cartridges.

One is a wizard of spotting game. He doesn’t use alpha glass. He’s also a big proponent of short action cartridges.

Another carries more money in alpha glass on a hunt than I have invested in every single piece of gear I own. He wishes everyone hunted with trad bows and irons just because of how many animals he’s tracked for clients.

 

[cal30_sniper]

And, yes if you attack me with a campfire, I am going to start a forrest fire.

You're really going to upset some people with those kind of tactics. Some guys around here are so anti-forest fire that they don't even carry fire starting gear into the field.

 

[ShootOkHuntWorse]

I lost interest in a lot of this thread but I think you’re referring to my comment? Which if so, it is absolutely true. I, and a lot of the guys I work with, tend to defer to a recommendation that leaves in our opinion the least margin for error. That’s why you’ll hear guides and outfitters push for a .30cal no matter what. But that’s *typically* when the client has little to no knowledge base. I don’t know many of us who would push a client away from shooting a rifle they’re super comfortable with regardless of bullet choice. There just frankly aren’t a ton of clients that have a rifle they’re super comfortable with..

That’s why my approach for someone who isn’t sure what to shoot is to tell them to just practice as much as possible with whatever they have and if it’s a less capable system then they can use my rifle.

FWIW, that combo for me for a few years has been a 7prc and factory 175 eld x. But I have a guy I hunt with a lot that has been shooting a 6.8 western and winchester 162gr copper impacts. This year I’ve watched that rifle kill an antelope, dall sheep, caribou, yukon moose, and two mule deer at a whole spectrum of yardages. It’s been so impressive that it’s really making me want one of my own.

What have you seen from that rifle that yours doesn’t do?

 

[Glendon Mullins]

So to recap 6 pages; OP stated he learned a lot from being around a bunch of guides, but has declined to share what he learned. Only that we should call a guide and figure it out ourselves. Is that about where we landed here?

and pepperoni rolls are better than steak, don't leave that out!

 

[fngTony]

and pepperoni rolls are better than steak, don't leave that out!

Mountain Dew is better than wine

 

[Billy Goat]

Mountain Dew is better than wine

I don't know if we are talking same Mtn Dew

 

[Steve300xcw]

I don't know if we are talking same Mtn Dew

And what are they really doing with these pepperoni rolls?

 

[BCDJR]

The pushback isn't from him saying guides can be a resource It's from him starting off implying guides are THE resource based on what he learned, and then not sharing what he learned.

A more productive example of kicking off a discussion is how @cwitt did it simply by sharing his experiences

 

[BCDJR]

The pushback isn't from him saying guides can be a resource It's from him starting off implying guides are THE resource based on what he learned, and then not sharing what he learned.

A more productive example of kicking off a discussion is how @cwitt did it simply by sharing his experiences.

This is what OP concluded at end of his comments “If you are thinking of working up a new load with a new bullet and have a guide friend or two, it might be worth the effort to pick their brain a bit”

That does not reflect the idea that that is the only resource at all.

 

[sndmn11]

This is what OP concluded at end of his comments “If you are thinking of working up a new load with a new bullet and have a guide friend or two, it might be worth the effort to pick their brain a bit”

That does not reflect the idea that that is the only resource at all.

His backing it up with not wanting to listen to other perspectives nor share what he learned implies it to be the standard.

I am still waiting to learn what he learned; people's experiences intrigue me and give me outside perspectives to consider.

 

[justin davis]

In regards to guides..I take things with a grain of salt. There are some obviously badass guides out there that know their stuff. But there are also guides out there that have less experience and other people. Just because you are a “guide” doesn’t mean you know a lot or are great hunter.

 

[BCDJR]

His backing it up with not wanting to listen to other perspectives nor share what he learned implies it to be the standard.

I am still waiting to learn what he learned; people's experiences intrigue me and give me outside perspectives to consider.

That’s a fair comment about wanting to learn and I am in same boat. He mentions a lifetime of hunting and only in last ten years he’s found folks who guide him who talk ballistics. The younger crowd often forgets we didn’t have the internet sharing, ballistic apps, rangerfinders with solutions and smart phones until last decade or so.They assume all guides should be pouring over this data for last 20 years. The OP mentions as I say in last ten years he’s noticed guides with more background in ballistics. That’s just a transition of a younger more informed generation. Personally I know my ballistic knowledge is a hell of a lot better in last 5 years and I try to learn more every day. As far as the OP posting what he learned…..no way in hell I would do that in any depth…it just opens up the haters once again to jump on his comments again. I did notice someone posted he was tired of the Wolfpack mentality here and I thought that was a good observation. It’s a shame a guy with a lot of experience thru out an idea and was ridiculed. That’s just MY OPINION.

 

[Chris in TN]

This is what OP concluded at end of his comments “If you are thinking of working up a new load with a new bullet and have a guide friend or two, it might be worth the effort to pick their brain a bit”

That does not reflect the idea that that is the only resource at all.

The root problem is honestly a generational one. Guys in (or close to) the Boomer generation sometimes don't understand the information age. What they see as wisdom dispensed from sages on high, we see as 'yeah, whatever', because we've had access to so much information over so much time - the internet has been in the hands of the masses for 30 years now - that we're no longer impressed. The advice in the OP might have been worth its weight in gold in 1958. Now? It's just not. What the OP regards as cherished wisdom, we see as an unverified single data point - AKA, an anecdote. And people don't have patience for it, particularly on a forum known for aggregating such data, and doubly so when the OP tried to sort of low-key soft-pitch an idea that contradicts what has been fleshed out with an absolutely massive amount of real-world data here as if his very shaky and unreliable n=1 data (anecdote) point from an unverified secondhand source trumped that mountain of data. It doesn't. There's a lot of downsides to the internet but nobody wants to go back to the dark ages of needing to ask 'experts' on opinions for everything when we could instead have mountains of data at our fingertips and be able to draw educated, reliable conclusions. OP is asking us to ignore literally thousands of pages of documentation of bullet successes and failures (even failures where the animal was still recovered anyway and the actual failures can be quantified in meaningful terms, not just speculated) in favor of his secondhand anecdotes. Then, worse, he wants us to assume that any guide we might talk to is as smart as his guide that has all that experience with shale-armored goats. Then when people confront him about it he starts the name-calling and personal attacks, then when staff steps in and ask everyone to stop, he continues the name calling:
It's downright bizarre and contrary to the reasons I joined this forum. If people want to gather 'round and pool their ignorance let them do it elsewhere.
Also, to the point of the last post above mine, posted while I was typing this:

No, it is not a shame that the guy was called out. It would have been a shame *not to*.

 

[Wprinkle]

I will listen to a pornstar about abstinence before I listen to an outfitter about bullet and cartridge choice...