Liners - are they worth it?

[sneaky]

Great to hear from someone with the same bag. I'll probably be in the same temp range at night so this gives me confidence. I've got a fairly thick Nemo pad that's served me well in the past but I might throw down some clothes as well now. Thanks

I haven't seen a Nemo pad yet that I would trust at those temperatures. They don't even list R values for their pads. I'd get a dedicated cold weather pad that is proven.

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[backcountryshaffer]

I haven't seen a Nemo pad yet that I would trust at those temperatures. They don't even list R values for their pads. I'd get a dedicated cold weather pad that is proven.

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I can't figure out why there is so much badmouthing Nemo pads. I love my Nemo Tensor Alpine. Warmest pad I've ever used.

 

[sneaky]

I can't figure out why there is so much badmouthing Nemo pads. I love my Nemo Tensor Alpine. Warmest pad I've ever used.

You don't run that pad at -35 or -40 either. Nemo doesn't make any pad that they rate anywhere near that level of cold. It's ok, they're going to have to start R valuing their pads anyways since the industry passed the regulations standardizing testing of them. At this point no one has any idea how they rate their pads. Do they use a cold sleeper? Warm sleeper? Mix of a group? I like their gear, but until they join the 21st century and start properly rating their pads I'll stick to proven designs. Nemo pads are way better than Big Agnes pads, but the OP is concerned about true bitter cold temps. Nemo is out on that one.

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[snowcamoman]

Best bet is to setup on the snow vs. the ground and put down a Thermarest Ridge-rest or similar and then an inflatable type over that. I've gone with the Ridge-rest and an XTherm in winter times and it's worked well.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don't camp in that kind of cold but I always got the impression that you'd want a vapor barrier to keep moisture from migrating to your down on an extended trip.

 

[HNTNBUX]

Great info! Thanks!!

 

[backcountryshaffer]

@sneaky what does you not having any idea regarding the rating of the Nemo pad have to do with my experience? I'm saying that the Nemo Tensor Alpine is the warmest pad I've ever used. I have used it alone in the bare bed of my truck down to 15F with a 15 degree Lamina bag. My experience is that I was as warm if not warmer on that pad than on my Exped MegaMat 10, which is far warmer than any of my "insulated" Thermarest or Klymit pads. I understand that best practice in extreme cold is to layer, like a foam pad under an inflatable.
@Viktorsmash It sounds like you have a great bag. I've read up on extreme weather camping, a lot of alpine winter campers use multiple bags and just try to get better than ~R-5 on the pad. I can't imagine sleeping in 2 bags but if it keeps you alive I guess it's worth it. Here's a link to an interesting article on Gear Junkie: https://gearjunkie.com/how-to-camp-stay-warm-winter-cold

 

[sneaky]

@sneaky what does you not having any idea regarding the rating of the Nemo pad have to do with my experience? I'm saying that the Nemo Tensor Alpine is the warmest pad I've ever used. I have used it alone in the bare bed of my truck down to 15F with a 15 degree Lamina bag. My experience is that I was as warm if not warmer on that pad than on my Exped MegaMat 10, which is far warmer than any of my "insulated" Thermarest or Klymit pads. I understand that best practice in extreme cold is to layer, like a foam pad under an inflatable.
@Viktorsmash It sounds like you have a great bag. I've read up on extreme weather camping, a lot of alpine winter campers use multiple bags and just try to get better than ~R-5 on the pad. I can't imagine sleeping in 2 bags but if it keeps you alive I guess it's worth it. Here's a link to an interesting article on Gear Junkie: https://gearjunkie.com/how-to-camp-stay-warm-winter-cold

I have plenty of experience with Nemo pads, your experience is yours, mine is mine. They don't make a pad I'd trust in extreme cold. The Alpine tensor is a good pad, just their version of an Xtherm with the metal film. Once you get below zero there are a handful of pads I trust, at this time Nemo isn't one of them. If that bothers you, then that's your problem. Doesn't concern me at all.

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[backcountryshaffer]

If that bothers you, then that's your problem. Doesn't concern me at all.

Damn, maybe you should change your handle to "snarky".

 

[sneaky]

Damn, maybe you should change your handle to "snarky".

Hmmm. @sneaky what does you not having any idea regarding the rating of the Nemo pad have to do with my experience?

Perhaps you take a different tact and you'll be responded to differently.

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[Viktorsmash]

@sneaky what does you not having any idea regarding the rating of the Nemo pad have to do with my experience? I'm saying that the Nemo Tensor Alpine is the warmest pad I've ever used. I have used it alone in the bare bed of my truck down to 15F with a 15 degree Lamina bag. My experience is that I was as warm if not warmer on that pad than on my Exped MegaMat 10, which is far warmer than any of my "insulated" Thermarest or Klymit pads. I understand that best practice in extreme cold is to layer, like a foam pad under an inflatable.
@Viktorsmash It sounds like you have a great bag. I've read up on extreme weather camping, a lot of alpine winter campers use multiple bags and just try to get better than ~R-5 on the pad. I can't imagine sleeping in 2 bags but if it keeps you alive I guess it's worth it. Here's a link to an interesting article on Gear Junkie: https://gearjunkie.com/how-to-camp-stay-warm-winter-cold

Thanks for the link. I used the hot water bottle by the feet trick during an alpine hike in the Vancouver Island mountain range last November and it did the trick. Temps only got to zero, maybe a bit lower, so I know I need a few more tricks up my sleeve this time. I also coined the phrase Pee-stabule during that trip. It's when you only open up your bag, roll over, hang your junk out the side of the tent, and pee within the vestibule. I have a double vestibule tent, so I specially put all my gear on the opposite side of where my bag zipper is.

 

[backcountryshaffer]

Pee-stabule

That's freaking funny!

 

[schwaf]

I've used liners in the past, but the tangled mess and inconvenience just isn't worth it. I carry an ultralight down throw blanket from Costco now. If I toss that in my sleeping bag, it does a lot for extra warmth. I can also take it with me during the day for a little extra warmth while glassing.