LimbSaver worse for recoil??

[Sandstrom]

The other day I was modifying a Tikka to raise the recoil pad more in line with the bore line when I noticed how different the angle is from a LimbSaver to a factory recoil pad. My understanding of physics is that the closer to 90 degrees that the butt pad is to the bore line the less muzzle rise you will have. I set up a factory Tikka stock on a flat surface relative to bore line to show the difference in pitch.

Factory pad.


LimbSaver pad.


I am wondering how much the change in angle will negatively impact recoil vs the benefit gained from a softer pad?

Stock that I modified.


Ryan

 

[Gila]

I put a standard model Limbsaver pad (without air baffles) on my Tikka 300 win mag. A big difference in recoil vs the Tikka OEM recoil pad.

 

[Darryle]

The pitch, drop and cast should fit you, you are modifying the gun with no regard to how you are shaped.

If you are concerned about the recoil, you can use washers stacked under the top or bottom screw to change pitch, once you have the pitch that gives you the least amount of felt recoil, using a square with bore parallel to the flat surface, measure the pitch and then duplicate it with the new pad. They make pitch shims for this very reason.

Read up on fitting shotguns, where recoil reduction and putting the bore into your natural line of sight is a science.

 

[Macintosh]

Darryle nailed it. The oem pad is thicker at the toe, to match the pitch with an aftermarket pad you need a angled pitch spacer or grind it yourself, as mentioned above.
Pitch affects your ability to get a consistent mount, but mainly it serves to direct the recoil impulse as parallel with the bore as is possible for a given stock. Both of those guns have negative or down pitch, which will assist in reducing muzzle flip. This is a good thing until you lose your consistent facial contact (and sight picture) under recoil. The kickeez pad may be a little softer (the newer tikka pads are much softer than the old t3 pads already), but if that causes too much down pitch for your body shape it may do more harm than good. The tikka stocks are pretty reasonable shape, you could do worse than to shoot the new pad from various positions and gradually work up the toe of the pad by stacking washers under the bottom screw to find the pitch where you can spot your shots the best. At that point you could leave it since you have kind of a franken-stock anyway, or you could measure and get/make a pitch spacer to match that angle.

 

[Sandstrom]

The pitch, drop and cast should fit you, you are modifying the gun with no regard to how you are shaped.

If you are concerned about the recoil, you can use washers stacked under the top or bottom screw to change pitch, once you have the pitch that gives you the least amount of felt recoil, using a square with bore parallel to the flat surface, measure the pitch and then duplicate it with the new pad. They make pitch shims for this very reason.

Read up on fitting shotguns, where recoil reduction and putting the bore into your natural line of sight is a science.

The main intent of my post was to point out the difference in the factory pad vs the LimbSavers shape for those who have never compared the two. I was surprised there was that much difference in pitch for a pad that is specifically designed as a bolt on part for a Tikka.

Not sure how would would deduce that I am modifying my stock with no regard to how I am shaped. If you notice in what I did to my stock, you will see that I have a large amount of ability to adjust several areas of how my stock fits me for my intended purpose. My purpose for this gun is strictly prone F-class shooting, so far I have not seen much on stock design in my copy of the stock fitters bible that is applicable to my intended purpose (long range prone shooting). For what it’s worth, raising the comb and pad to be more inline with my bore worked splendidly for controlling the tracking and muzzle rise while prone.

Ryan

 

[Darryle]

The top of the forend is not necessarily parallel to the bore.

If the setup you have devised works for you, great. But because the pitch of the Limbsaver is different from the factory doesn't mean anything in regards to recoil unless you take into account anatomy.

The design, speculation on my part, is probably derived from a broad cross section of American shooters, the majority probably overweight, shaped like a wedge/barrel chested. That would lead to the toe of the pad being further away from perpendicular than the factory pad. The factory pad was designed in Finland, the Finnish population is probably thinner, shoulders and chest are probably around the same thickness, leading to the factory design with the toe closer to perpendicular.

While both designs will work for a large variety of shooters, it doesn't work for all, which leads to some shooters complaining about recoil with one stock but not another.

The washer or quarter method that Rollin Oswald mentions in The Stock Fitters Bible works with shotguns and rifles, the more of the pad that you bring into contact with the pocket, the less perceived recoil the shooter will feel.

I am curious about how much that factory stock will flex with the pad so far above the factory comb and about perceived recoil, fit and function once you begin to compete with it.

 

[Sandstrom]

The top of the forend is not necessarily parallel to the bore.

If the setup you have devised works for you, great. But because the pitch of the Limbsaver is different from the factory doesn't mean anything in regards to recoil unless you take into account anatomy.

The design, speculation on my part, is probably derived from a broad cross section of American shooters, the majority probably overweight, shaped like a wedge/barrel chested. That would lead to the toe of the pad being further away from perpendicular than the factory pad. The factory pad was designed in Finland, the Finnish population is probably thinner, shoulders and chest are probably around the same thickness, leading to the factory design with the toe closer to perpendicular.

While both designs will work for a large variety of shooters, it doesn't work for all, which leads to some shooters complaining about recoil with one stock but not another.

The washer or quarter method that Rollin Oswald mentions in The Stock Fitters Bible works with shotguns and rifles, the more of the pad that you bring into contact with the pocket, the less perceived recoil the shooter will feel.

I am curious about how much that factory stock will flex with the pad so far above the factory comb and about perceived recoil, fit and function once you begin to compete with it.

From the best of my ability to measure with a level, the top of the receiver is parallel with the top of the forend of the stock.

In the future I will try the washer method for pitch on a factory Tikka stock. That will be a fun experiment and a good excuse to go to the range.

As for the stock flexing, I personally am not concerned with it, from everything I have seen and felt, the factory Tikka stock is very rigid there. On my particular stock, I filled every possible area with a combination of epoxy and lead shot in order to add weight. For the class I am in, the gun can weigh 18 lbs.

Ryan

 

[Wilehunting]

I’m late to this discussion but I’ll add my experience/ opinion. In trying to find the perfect pitch for my trap gun I arrived at 2” down/negative pitch as optimal for me. I’m 5’11” and 155lbs. When in comes to rifles, I just used the stocks as purchased. I recently acquired a Tikka, added the Limbsaver and feel exactly as Sandstrom feels. I have not shot my Tikka yet as I’m still putting in together. Ideally, recoil should drive straight back into your shoulder so you can have a good chance at a follow up shot. If the gun recoils up or down, there is little chance as well as if it busts you in the chops. If you think of your shoulder as a semicircle then; 0/ neutral pitch and the gun should recoil straight back, negative/down pitch and the gun could possibly come up your shoulder into your face, positive/ up pitch and the gun could possibly slide down into your armpit. You could also add that some rifles like a Weatherby have a comb that slopes away from your face and I think the Ctr Tikka also has a mild downslope away to move recoil from the face. With the factory Tikka stock I see the following options; just use the factory T3x recoil pad as is supposed to be softer the the T3 pad, cut the stock to change the pitch, add pitch spacers to change the pitch or buy an aftermarket stock with less negative/down pitch. Please let me know.

The above statements are related to an unsupported standing shooting position.