Light for caliber and fast still. Good option?

[Poe]

Just for fun I thought it might be fun to discuss the trend to heavy high bc but slower for hunting. Do you think we might possibly be steering some people towards a cartridge and bullet choice that maybe isn’t the best option. For longer range shots you can’t really argue it but how many hunters really shoot over 300 yards when hunting and how many people actually practice enough to be proficient at 400 plus. For quick shots under 400 yards is a fast lighter and lower bullet maybe still a great option like the 257 weatherby?

 

[wildwilderness]

I say yes with the right bullets

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Sure. Been done forever. 257 Bee is a bad ass. I would even shoot Barnes with it since the velocity is so high. Friend of mine shot a bison recently just over 100 yards with his 257 and 100gr TTSX and it was highly effective.

The guys on the Hammer forum shoot light for caliber in large cartridges for ultra high velocity and destroy everything on the planet.

If you aren’t shooting long range like you said, high velocity, light for caliber, fragmenting monos are completely viable.

Where problems could arise is light for caliber varmit type bullets (cup and core) that may (MAY) lack the penetration needed to hit vitals. But light for caliber monos change the game. I have been wanting to do a fast twist 243AI or 25-06AI or something like that with light for cal Hammers for my wife. A low recoil point and click to 300 yards. KISS approach.

 

[SDHNTR]

Under 300 yards it doesn’t matter IMO. Why shoot something like the .257 Wby when it burns so much powder, components are expensive and it recoils more. Why not shoot a .243, 6/6.5 Creed, .270, .308, etc. same effect, far more practical.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Not disagreeing with your point, but using my buddy’s 257 Bee data, MPBR (+or- 3” from point of aim) is 350 yards. That’s pretty far with no need to dial.

ETA: 7.5” drop at 400, “top of back”, no dialing. It’s old school, but it still works. Keep in mind this is with a 100gr TTSX, I’m sure with other bullets this could be improved.

 

[SDHNTR]

Not disagreeing with your point, but using my buddy’s 257 Bee data, MPBR (+or- 3” from point of aim) is 350 yards. That’s pretty far with no need to dial.

Even with standard calibers I don’t see much need to dial inside of 300 yards.

 

[khuber84]

90gr nosler ballistic tip from a 243, brutal on game.......

 

[Ferrulewax]

Isn’t that the whole reason we are recommending heavy for caliber, small caliber bullets? Like 22 creed? 6UM, 6 creed, etc. shoot flat and high bc, best of both worlds. If you only want to shoot 90grains, might as well shoot a smaller diameter higher bc 90grains.

 

[Wacko]

I think the idea has merit. Especially if the right bullets are picked and the right round. The 257 bee has long been THE standard....A 25-06 with 100's @ 3300 could be fun...low recoil too.

Lots of others too.....

 

[wyosam]

Yep, still works great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deere_Man]

55gr soft point 223 Rem on medium sized game is very effective. I’m not sure about smaller than 55gr though.

 

[UnckleBob]

Just for fun I thought it might be fun to discuss the trend to heavy high bc but slower for hunting. Do you think we might possibly be steering some people towards a cartridge and bullet choice that maybe isn’t the best option. For longer range shots you can’t really argue it but how many hunters really shoot over 300 yards when hunting and how many people actually practice enough to be proficient at 400 plus. For quick shots under 400 yards is a fast lighter and lower bullet maybe still a great option like the 257 weatherby?

For short range hunting, I would prefer the heaviest bullet in a given caliber than a smaller bullet going at an insane speed.

A heavy for caliber 6mm bullet (pick your cartridge) is a proven killer. There is zero need to go for the 257 Weatherby.

 

[Slickhill]

I used a 257Wby with 100s at Mach 9 and a 270Wby with 130s as fast I I could push them for years. Still use the 270 some as it’s a lightweight and consistent shooting rifle I’m familiar and comfortable with.

They’re still very good for making quick shots without ranging at the 400 and in ranges I shoot most stuff at. When a herd of elk is moseying out of the bowl after you bumped them a little and you have time to get a rest and squeeze one off as the bull pauses before going on over the top but not time to range and dial the flat trajectory is a big help. They aren’t perfect for everything but they do offer an easy and simple option for “normal” ranges.

 

[Poe]

Under 300 yards it doesn’t matter IMO. Why shoot something like the .257 Wby when it burns so much powder, components are expensive and it recoils more. Why not shoot a .243, 6/6.5 Creed, .270, .308, etc. same effect, far more practical.

Because with the right load and the right zero the 257 wby is a hold on hair to 400 yards gun. With a 6.5 creed or a 308 you won’t be able to do that

 

[Poe]

I used a 257Wby with 100s at Mach 9 and a 270Wby with 130s as fast I I could push them for years. Still use the 270 some as it’s a lightweight and consistent shooting rifle I’m familiar and comfortable with.

They’re still very good for making quick shots without ranging at the 400 and in ranges I shoot most stuff at. When a herd of elk is moseying out of the bowl after you bumped them a little and you have time to get a rest and squeeze one off as the bull pauses before going on over the top but not time to range and dial the flat trajectory is a big help. They aren’t perfect for everything but they do offer an easy and simple option for “normal” ranges.

I’m all for the high BC longer range setups but I feel like this situation is a major bonus to the light super fast bullets. I have shot and seen quite a few animals shot that you had a matter of seconds to decide if you wanted to shoot or not and being able to just say it’s under 400 yards so aim high shoulder and shoot makes a big difference If you took them time to use. Range finder or dial the animal would be long gone

 

[CJ_BG]

I've used and processed game for others shot with light for caliber mono and lead core bullets. 223 50gr gmx on the low end, 69gr hammers and 70gr ballistic tips in a 243 in the mid range, 110 vmax in a 270, and 130 ttsx in a 300 wby on the high end. Some of my takeaways

Wound channels with the light monos aren't as good as typical lead core wounds even at stupid high impact velocities. 3400fps with the 130 ttsx in the wby and it had just started to look like a typical lead core mid velocity impact. 2-2.5 inch wounds through the lungs. All the other monos that don't shed petals made 1/2-1.5 inch wounds even at impacts as high as 3250. The light hammers don't impress me much, they seem to not disperse petals more than an inch until 8ish inches of penetration. So basically when they're already in the 2nd lung of a broadside deer.

The light lead core varmint bullets make great wounds, but CAN lack penetration depth. My experiences have been with the 70gr ballistic tip and 110 vmax, and I processed a couple shot with 125 ballistic tips in 30 cals. Penetration wasn't a problem with any of these but they were all deer and problems may arise in bigger animals.

But everything died so I guess you couldn't complain too much.

My bigger issue is the idea of "hold on hair" out to 400 for times you "can't get a range in time". If someone is shooting an animal at 400 and doesn't think they have time to actually get a range and dial/hold over they likely also aren't making a wind call. Getting a shot off fast doesn't do you much good if it's 10 inches off and barely clips the front end or misses entirely. The people that are consistently shooting animals at those distances aren't just holding on hair and letting em fly because they don't want to get a range.


I just don't see the juice being worth the squeeze. Unless you want to make extra wide wounds with light varmint bullets then you're giving up terminal performance and shootability for the idea that a 400yd shot is as simple as holding on hair.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

I have not used them yet, but necropsies of the hammer HHT line (tipped) seem to show the petals coming off almost immediately. I bought some 30 cal 138HHT to load in my 06 this year for cow elk. I’m expecting over 3k fps with my 19ish barrel.

 

[Rich M]

This is how stuff used to work. Some of us dont want to worry about dialing scopes.

Most rifles with 3000 fps dont need to dial inside 400 yds.