Liberation Day

[NDGuy]

If they are paying for it with credit cards, loans, govt handouts or they don’t have $100 to save at the end of the month I am here to inform you they can’t afford those “luxuries”.

You know what happens when people who don’t have the money to spend keep on spending it on goods and services they can’t afford via loans, credit cards, and govt handouts? INFLATION!

Then before you know it that middle class you speak of also cannot afford those luxuries and those who never could fall even further behind and around and around we go.

Time to get off that carousel my friend.

Cheers

I'm not talking about those people. I am talking about someone like myself who did things the "right way".

Stayed out of trouble, went to school, worked hard, got a job, worked hard and is now working for a company in the S&P 500 with a working spouse that is being squeezed on the basic necessities of life.

I know dozens of people in my own circle experiencing the same thing.

Time to get off that carousel my friend.

Cheers

Where does the carousel stop? Our children not being able to afford to buy a car, house, or have kids of their own?

 

[Dos Perros]

If they were serious about bringing manufacturing jobs back, they’d spend 100% of the money made with tariffs to provide trade school training to anyone who wants it. Trade schools should have always been something we invested in. Why it’s valuable for snot nose kids to learn a language they will never use, while cutting vocational classes was always beyond me.

My opinion, we need to train them up prior to their HS graduation. Regular old education should be the priority. As it is finding people that can read a set of work instructions and pass a drug test is a challenge.

 

[CorbLand]

My opinion, we need to train them up prior to their HS graduation. Regular old education should be the priority. As it is finding people that can read a set of work instructions and pass a drug test is a challenge.

Personally, I think we need to ask ourselves why most entry level jobs require someone to get an education above high school level.

 

[Poser]

Estimates I'm seeing on the tariff situation is a cost increase of $3400-$4200 annually per household.

I suppose we'll just wait for the game show style announcement this afternoon and see what the details are.

 

[Dos Perros]

Personally, I think we need to ask ourselves why most entry level jobs require someone to get an education above high school level.

I think that's fair, and the reason is because high school educations don't mean anything anymore. Schools are doing literally anything they can do graduate worthless kids.

There are lots of things that need fixing, improving, and it all matters to some extent. It's going to take a generation of hard work to get this country back on track. I hope we have the guts to stay the course.

 

[northernmadman]

Do things happen all the time? I would like to see some of the recent reports of active mines polluting water.

it's in Canada, but Eagle mine in the Yukon just spilt an estimated 150k liters of cyanide contaminated water into the river. all from a broken pipe. this is after 19 million liters of other contaminated water was spilt from a containment pond. It's not all the time, but pretty bad when it happens and at some point over the life of a mine there will be spills and leaks that happen.

 

[cnelk]

The majority of US auto parts are made in Mexico which is also under Tariff threats.

View attachment 862000

Of course.
But like mentioned, a person doesn’t have to buy cheap parts from another country

 

[KurtR]

it's in Canada, but Eagle mine in the Yukon just spilt an estimated 150k liters of cyanide contaminated water into the river. all from a broken pipe. this is after 19 million liters of other contaminated water was spilt from a containment pond. It's not all the time, but pretty bad when it happens and at some point over the life of a mine there will be spills and leaks that happen.

Thats the only recent one i could find also. The other is from a mine that had not been in operation for years. I think saying it happens all the time is miss leading. As a country we need materials if we dont want to be as dependent on others so i guess is the juice worth the squeeze is the decision that needs to be made.

 

[Predator_SD]

I'm not talking about those people. I am talking about someone like myself who did things the "right way".

Stayed out of trouble, went to school, worked hard, got a job, worked hard and is now working for a company in the S&P 500 with a working spouse that is being squeezed on the basic necessities of life.

I know dozens of people in my own circle experiencing the same thing.

Where does the carousel stop? Our children not being able to afford to buy a car, house, or have kids of their own?

i’ll refer you back to my third paragraph

It ain’t tariffs that made those things expensive for you.

The Carousel stops by bringing those jobs back to the US so people can earn their own money while at the same time deporting millions of illegals who are currently a drain on US resources, housing, and entry level jobs.

Stay the course my friend things are going to get better.

 

[Jimbuck]

Thats the only recent one i could find also. The other is from a mine that had not been in operation for years. I think saying it happens all the time is miss leading. As a country we need materials if we dont want to be as dependent on others so i guess is the juice worth the squeeze is the decision that needs to be made.

The USGS site had quite a few reports on mining pollution before the current admin scrubbed them clean. Superfund sites are maintained by the EPA and with all the government cuts we've been seeing the past few months, it's safe to assume that oversight with these projects is out the window.

 

[Dos Perros]

Wait, are we saying we need to consume raw materials without being willing to mine them?

 

[Conrad101st]

Let me ask you a simple question. If the stock market was at an all time high, inflation was coming down dramatically and unemployment was relatively low, what was the urgent crisis that warranted these tariffs??

I fail to see the logic especially considering the state of affairs. Maybe we need to trim some fat sure, but this broad approach is not rational.

I suspect when the average person’s expenses go up, and their farm subsidies get hammered, and their poor momma can’t get Medicare, and their 401 gets hammered; the result will not be a republican gain.

 

[NDGuy]

what was the urgent crisis that warranted these tariffs??

To grind things to a hault and scoop up cheap equities, real estate, and businesses for the donor class.

Watching it in real time.

 

[Loo.wii]

From my point of view, the issue is short term effect vs long term effect. We have somewhat lived with the effect from slave labor in foreign countries while giving leverage to our enemies. A bunch of this has resulted in driving industry out of the US.

There will be change and short term effects. The time it takes to reestablish infrastructure and labor in the US is a major unknown. We have been getting hosed on the international market. Can we re-adjust to compete is an unknown as is how long. It's worth watching but there's no guarantees to the outcome. I think it is worth the gamble.

In my lifetime I remember someone saying we didn't need resources any more. We could make it with our superior intelligence. There was some imagination.

How can we compete with the minimum wages/slavery in temu factories? i think whats a really big part of this discussion. Based on some estimates an Iphone would cost double if it were built in the US. I hope this tariff deal works out because the old bones of cities like e would agree that yes there is space and a populace for US manufacturing.

 

[KurtR]

The USGS site had quite a few reports on mining pollution before the current admin scrubbed them clean. Superfund sites are maintained by the EPA and with all the government cuts we've been seeing the past few months, it's safe to assume that oversight with these projects is out the window.

Are these from the last 10 years or even more recent . What happened 50 years ago in mining is a far cry different than what is happening now.

 

[jKsled]

I think this boils down to national security. China has the capacity to make things. The US doesn't. We couldn't even supply enough missiles to last a few months in a major conflict. Virtual design and systems (which we excel at) cannot function without hardware & goods.

The payback period is 40+ years out, not 4... I'm sure everything will change course next election, and I'm not sure this is the right approach, but something has to be done.

Perhaps the sacrifice is enabling consumerism (cheap iphones) versus the strength to survive as a country for the next 100+ yrs and providing a stable strong place for the citizens.

These themes (not tariffs, but material productivity, outright domination of other nations, rights of citizens) are common across the rise and fall of other empires through history. Though I might not agree with approach, I would at least rather come at this from a place of strength, not dependent on China.

 

[FuddRucker]

Do things happen all the time? I would like to see some of the recent reports of active mines polluting water.

You've been given some examples but here are some others below. You've also got a world of information at your fingertips if you care to investigate a little bit. "All the time" is too strong but they do happen regularly from an historical perspective. I'm no expert but below are some examples I found easily.

Here https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/...pill-incidents/past-spill-incidents/mt-polley

https://www.sierraclub.org/wisconsin/blog/2017/08/every-mine-has-polluted-water this source is biased but points out a few as well as some of the questions surround the type of mining.

Study finds mining-related pollution 350 miles downstream of Canadian coal mines

Regulators in the U.S. say the study shows that dangerous levels of selenium are entering the waterways of Montana and Idaho.

montanafreepress.org

U.S. mining sites dump 50 million gallons of fouled wastewater daily

That torrent is poisoning aquatic life and tainting drinking water sources in Montana, California, Colorado, Oklahoma and at least five other states.

www.pbs.org

We can pretend that mining (sulfide mining especially) is clean, but that does not make it so. The processes involved create a lot of waste. Even if we assume that it can be done with minimal impact, there is no guarantee that there won't be spillages of the waste down the line that we all end up paying for in environmental impacts, clean up cost, and in some cases health.

I think there is a high risk of negative consequences. I do not think it's worth the risk for the relatively small number of jobs it creates, especially when the capital is owned by foreign entities.

 

[FuddRucker]

Are these from the last 10 years or even more recent . What happened 50 years ago in mining is a far cry different than what is happening now.

How is it a far cry different? What is safer about what they're doing now from a waste management/environmental impact perspective?

 

[jimh406]

It's about pressure for other countries to reduce tariffs against the US. Or, if you are against the current administration, it's to increase prices on US consumers. Choose.

 

[dreamingbig]

Without the consumer being able to expand their budget (increased leverage) they are going to have to buy less but total spend will remain flat.

My guess is they find a way to increase leverage (credit cards, helocs, 2nds, cash outs) and spend more leading to inflation.


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