Liberation Day

[EastHumboldt]

Short answer. Consumers will bear the brunt of tariffs, and instead of increasing our trade in a trade deficit situation, it just decreases theirs, which seems to hurt everybody and help nobody.

One of the big reasons that china is so competitive is their government subsidizes and liberally invests in industries that they want to build up. Our system of government finds that unattractive and contrary to our philosophy. So we can’t compete. That and the slavery. I don’t think a tariff is going to fix that.

Edit: time will tell and I hope I’m wrong… but I’m not.

 

[Poser]

You US ABSOLUTLEY has the available workforce.

Now, the real question is will that currently unemployed but able to work workforce who decided they no longer needed a job after Covid thus dropped out to “find themselves and live their best life” are broke enough yet to take their unskilled selves back to work in a steel factory, auto factory or build bows for Mathews.

Being people are inherently lazy with the younger American demographic being perceived as exceedingly lazy as they put a higher priority on “finding themselves and living their best life” than putting a roof over their kids heads. All this while buying $8 Starbucks coffees on credit cards i don’t have high hopes.

But it is an admirable attempt by Trump to essentially yell, “go get a job” as Americas new father figure for those who don’t feel the need to respect their own father figure. Or….their own father figure is also “finding himself and living his best life” so they have poor role models and been raised by their favorite Instagram influencers.

Cheers

Well there's some sweeping generalizations.

 

[Predator_SD]

Our business manufactures hydraulic lifts for trucks(liftgates). Our biggest competitor filed bankruptcy in the early 90s. NAFTA happened, they moved to Mexico, and now they own probably 70% of the market. Over the past few months we've had several customers sending out emails asking what tariffs will do to our prices. For us, nearly completely American made, the answer is that the tariffs won't change our prices much or at all. Now our Mexican made counterpart, not so much. They'll have no choice but to pass it on. We've recently gotten a lot more interest in our products as a result.

Another example from our industry: Most box semi trailers were manufactured in the Midwest. Largely in Indiana. Hyundai Trailers(from South Korea), opened a plant in Mexico in the early 2000s. They produce the most trailers now. Something like 50,000 a year. The American made brands of Great Dane, Wabash, and Utility lost all that market share to foreign competition. How many American manufacturing jobs was that? It's hard to say.

The manufacturing base of America was gutted by NAFTA and free trade. We were told it's good for everyone because we get more competition and lower priced goods. So we get lower prices but we've shipped out millions of solid middle class manufacturing jobs for the privilege. Drive through the Midwest and you'll see shells of companies and communities that were gutted by this. Great, we get cheaper TVs and appliances that break in 3 years(by design). Our shelves at Walmart are full of "stuff," 90% of which will be in the landfill in a year.

I'd rather go back to a day where perhaps we buy less things as a society, but those things are made by our neighbors, here at home. The concentration of wealth at the top in our society is greater than it has ever been. Free trade worked out great for the people that pushed it. Ross Perot was right. My $.02.

All by design my friend. Look at the wealth the Clintons have all built, their unskilled Daughter included.

Very glad your company is seeing increased interest as Americans have planned and voted for. Hopefully Americans will have the resolve to see this thing through to the end and rebuild our manufacturing base.

Agree also with the idea we need less rampant consumerism of cheap poorly built useless overseas junk.

 

[Predator_SD]

Well there's some sweeping generalizations.

Based in facts

If you truly believe a nation of 350 million people doesn’t have a large enough potential workforce to build automobiles, microchips, cell phones, and steel then you might want to look around and pay attention.

Happy Hunting

 

[Poser]

If you believe in global climate change then you can't possibly support offshoring your waste via production in countries with little to no environmental regulation. Same can be said for human rights. Put your money where your mouth is, your money is a vote you get to make every day!

You're right to call out the inconsistency of supporting companies that exploit lax environmental and labor laws abroad. However, the responsibility doesn't rest solely on consumers. Holding corporations accountable through stricter regulations, both domestically and internationally, could potentially achieve the same ends. And, a lot of what we seeing is is the sentiment that "the US must deregulated to make this work." Where's the tradeoff between more US production with less regulation/more exploitation or more global production with more regulation/less exploitation? If we end up trading one set of slave labor abroad for another at home, one set of environmental disasters abroad for another at home, did we actually even do anything?

 

[cnelk]

It will be interesting if any country caves and reduces their tariffs - reciprocal right?

 

[Poser]

Based in facts

Please point out one single fact in your previous post. Just one. I'll wait.

 

[Predator_SD]

Short answer. Consumers will bear the brunt of tariffs, and instead of increasing our trade in a trade deficit situation, it just decreases theirs, which seems to hurt everybody and help nobody.

One of the big reasons that china is so competitive is their government subsidizes and liberally invests in industries that they want to build up. Our system of government finds that unattractive and contrary to our philosophy. So we can’t compete. That and the slavery. I don’t think a tariff is going to fix that.

Edit: time will tell and I hope I’m wrong… but I’m not.

You forgot to mention China also indoctrinates their people from birth to put China ahead of themselves as an individual. Once they have them believing that they work them 18 hours a day at 3$/hr building useless cheap crap or iphones until they eventually have had enough and jump out a 6th story window.

China’s response to that, install nets.

Advantage….China

 

[Predator_SD]

Please point out one single fact in your previous post. Just one. I'll wait.

We have people capable of building cars, iphones, producing steel, smelting Aluminum, etc. They just need the factories to be in the US instead of China to do it.

Are you saying the US doesn’t have millions of people that could potentially fill those roles?

 

[Dos Perros]

You're right to call out the inconsistency of supporting companies that exploit lax environmental and labor laws abroad. However, the responsibility doesn't rest solely on consumers. Holding corporations accountable through stricter regulations, both domestically and internationally, could potentially achieve the same ends. And, a lot of what we seeing is is the sentiment that "the US must deregulated to make this work." Where's the tradeoff between more US production with less regulation/more exploitation or more global production with more regulation/less exploitation? If we end up trading one set of slave labor abroad for another at home, one set of environmental disasters abroad for another at home, did we actually even do anything?

Fully agree. I believe that products imported to the United States should be required to have been produced under a similar set of regulations that we would levy on domestic producers.

 

[Fujicon]

Reality: it's a pipe dream to believe EVERY product will be manufactured in the United States, so there's that. However, it is equally, in fact more delusional to think a country is "free" when it relies on critical products from overseas suppliers. If tariffs serve to reestablish American manufacturing prowess stateside, especially when it comes to critical capabilities like energy, steel, lumber, prescription drugs, etc. and a bump in cost is the consequence, I just see that as the cost of freedom, and I am ALWAYS willing to bear the cost of freedom.

 

[TaperPin]

Tariffs are a nationwide sales tax. It seems expected to be the largest tax increase in our lifetimes. It doesn’t sound bad when it’s effects haven’t been felt yet, but Americans are quick to avoid pain and it won’t end well.

One of the quickest ways to go broke is over building during temporary periods of high demand and have to deal with high overhead when things go back to normal. How many companies will simply wait out the next four years before making new capital investments rather than bet the business on a chaotic business environment? Commodity prices will tank so we’ll see direct payments again, just like last time - bail out farmers, so they will be happy.

When they guys selling tariffs just happen to be about to give themselves big tax breaks in the upcoming budget, yet the average American just got the biggest tax increase in their lifetime, the writing is on the wall.

 

[Predator_SD]

Reality: it's a pipe dream to believe EVERY product will be manufactured in the United States, so there's that. However, it is equally, in fact more delusional to think a country is "free" when it relies on critical products from overseas suppliers. If tariffs serve to reestablish American manufacturing prowess stateside, especially when it comes to critical capabilities like energy, steel, lumber, prescription drugs, etc. and a bump in cost is the consequence, I just see that as the cost of freedom, and I am ALWAYS willing to bear the cost of freedom.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

If you believe in global climate change then you can't possibly support offshoring your waste via production in countries with little to no environmental regulation. Same can be said for human rights. Put your money where your mouth is, your money is a vote you get to make every day!

THIS RIGHT HERE. For years folks have looked a blind eye at this stuff "as long as not in my back yard".

The best example of this is the diesel emissions farce. The new industries, mining, and shipping, required to produce EGRs, sensors, and DPFs, have increased net emissions over pre-emmissions levels. I don't advocate rolling coal at all, and modern tuning can dramatically reduce diesel emmissions and improve longevity and fuel economy without a lot of smoke. I see it every day first hand with my truck.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

I see a lot tallk about consumer goods..Anybody know if these tarrrifs will help Amercan farmers?...slow down beef from South America being marked American made because it was processed here, ect. I know some countries, including Canada, have 200% of dairy imports from the US.

 

[Predator_SD]

Tariffs are a nationwide sales tax. It seems expected to be the largest tax increase in our lifetimes. It doesn’t sound bad when it’s effects haven’t been felt yet, but Americans are quick to avoid pain and it won’t end well.

One of the quickest ways to go broke is over building during temporary periods of high demand and have to deal with high overhead when things go back to normal. How many companies will simply wait out the next four years before making new capital investments rather than bet the business on a chaotic business environment? Commodity prices will tank so we’ll see direct payments again, just like last time - bail out farmers, so they will be happy.

When they guys selling tariffs just happen to be about to give themselves big tax breaks in the upcoming budget, yet the average American just got the biggest tax increase in their lifetime, the writing is on the wall.

Quite a lot of Americans could help themselves out by looking at THEIR budgets, or lack therof.

A 200$/month Starbucks habit, $300/month streaming services for tv they don’t watch, new bow every year, new truck every 3, etc. A lot of Americans will be just fine. A lot will go bankrupt and lose those houses, trucks, and boats they never could really afford in the first place.

The great resetting, bring it on im ready.

 

[Poser]

We have people capable of building cars, iphones, producing steel, smelting Aluminum, etc. They just need the factories to be in the US instead of China to do it.

Are you saying the US doesn’t have millions of people that could potentially fill those roles?

Numbers? Yes. (The rest of your post, however, sweeping generalizations).

Supply Chains: yeas out.
Infrastructure:: years out.
Automation: years out.
Expertise and Training for a work force on the required scale: years out.

The good news: Statistically speaking, China's reproduction rate has them running out of a labor force between 2035-2040. There's no possible course correction for their demographics at this late stage.

Strategically, there is a way to thread the needle between the two. Does that strategy involve imposing 25% tariffs on the whole word on one random day in the year 2025? probably not.

 

[Predator_SD]

Numbers? Yes. (The rest of your post, however, sweeping generalizations).

Supply Chains: yeas out.
Infrastructure:: years out.
Automation: years out.
Expertise and Training for a work force on the required scale: years out.

The good news: Statistically speaking, China's reproduction rate has them running out of a labor force between 2035-2040. There's no possible course correction for their demographics at this late stage.

Strategically, there is a way to thread the needle between the two. Does that strategy involve imposing 25% tariffs on the whole word on one random day in the year 2025? probably not.

Well, Liberals had their crack at it and it was a resounding failure leading to where we are now.

Time to go with the nuclear approach and blow the whole system up. Those left standing will be stronger for it. Those unwilling to get on board because they are still “finding themselves” and trying to not work too hard will end up homeless. But thats a choice they made in the end as homelessness always is.

Get on the train and get productive or get out the way.

Cheers

 

[FuddRucker]

There is a proposed mine in Northern MN for example that has been hamstrung by regulation and environmental sensationalism for years

Is it really environmental sensationalism to raise concerns about the risks of a mining operation that would likely pollute the boundary waters? I'm sure the people who hunt and fish there don't think so.

FWIW, the mining company running the show would be a subsidiary of a Chilean corporation according to a quick Google search.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Holding corporations accountable through stricter regulations, both domestically and internationally, could potentially achieve the same ends.

Countries for whom citizens depend on low wages and dangerous jobs to put food on the table could care less about the US standards for manufacturing and production. The US and Western Europe were tremendous polluters during our industrial revolutions, and many of these countries are going through their booms now. Who are we to strap them down with regulation to kill their burgeoning economies?

You are right that there is a price to pay either way. However, analyzing current US regulations and reducing or eliminating them when they don't make sense or are based on decades old testing and measurement systems just makes sense. Regulating our industries to the point that we are no longer competitive is a recipe for dependency not freedom.

If I had my way, we would put a laser beam focus on nuclear power, leveraging the latest technology and innovation to broaden it's use in our grid. The Chernobyl and 3-Mile Island issues have put a forever stain on this nearly limitless power source. For cripes sake, we've had naval vessels and ice breakers powered by nuclear for decades. Make energy cheap and the rest of the economy will thrive whether we're talking about gasoline, diesel, natural gas, or coal.